Wanted - a change in the rules (coaching on strip)

[neevel]

[quote]Originally posted by Inquartata:
<strong>
At least coaches in fencing can be useful. I saw parts of the speed skating from the Winter Olympics, and even they had coaches ( on skates, on the ice, who'd tell them things every time their skater went past ). What the heck is there to advise a skater on, for pity's sake? "Skate faster"? "Skate even FASTER"? "Skate faster still"? </strong><hr></blockquote>

"We just bribed the French judge to ignore the deal she cut with the Russian judge, so you can relax and simply do your routine."

[Inquartata]

Ahahahaha!

Very good!

[Mo]

( This space available---your pet peeve here. )
My Pet Peeve, mothers who cheer when your child gets beat when it is not their kid who beat them. They do it just to me mean and vindictive.

[sabreur]

[quote]Originally posted by Inquartata:
<strong>H
Having to salute or shake hands or call the referee "sir" annoys some people.

</strong><hr></blockquote>


Since when do you have to call the referee "sir?" Sir what? Sir Blinksalot? Vassal of Lord Blindaugen? Servant of King Pasdeconcept? <img src="graemlins/jester.gif" border="0" alt="[Jester]" />

Someone needs to point this one out in the rule book.

Cheers, MR

[scarlet_woman156k]

D'Artagnan1673:

This is not about coaching, this is about your thought patterns during the bout.

Your first mistake: "I was winning very easily until the break." You already had the mindset that this was going to be an easy bout. And when the opponent got advice from his clubmate, he changed his strategy, but you did not change yours.

Second: Doubt and worry. You began to doubt a positive outcome and began to worry when a clubmate of the opponent began to talk to him during the break. You allowed the mind to spiral downward with fear of potentially losing.

Third: You probably also got pissed that it wasn't "fair" that he had a "coach" and you didn't. This can affect performance because of the negative thoughts!

You allowed your thoughts to dictate the interactions in the bout, and you had much more difficulty adjust your strategy, thus making it "harder" to win. Be aware of what is going on in the mind...your own reactions to the environment around you affects the bout and outcome.

If you had not gotten worried about the clubmate offering advice, but was just *aware* the opponent might try a new strategy, you would have been thinking and reacting much more clearly when the second period started, and would have probably been able to adjust your strategy more quickly as well.

[ 04-30-2002: Message edited by: scarlet_woman156k ]</p>

[HilandDoug]

Bravo, Scarlett! I was going to say something similar, but I'd just be parroting you.

D'Art, the main thing here is frame of mind. If you are a positive person, you see intervention of the coach as a weakness in the other fencer. You are crushing them like a bug, and they need to be rescued! Watch the body language exhibited by both as they talk in hushed tones, and see if you can discern their new strategy. And in a DE, you can afford to give up a touch to find out what they are doing, because it won't count against you as a negative indicator. My old coach used to say, "Give up a touch to get two." Proceed to do exactly what you HAD been doing that was so successful, and force them to show their hand as to what the coach said to do to beat your strategy. You now have that information and can use it to your advantage.

Like Yogi Beara said about fencing, "It's 90% mental, and 50% physical."

[Inquartata]

[quote]Originally posted by sabreur:
<strong>


Since when do you have to call the referee "sir?" Sir what? Sir Blinksalot? Vassal of Lord Blindaugen? Servant of King Pasdeconcept? <img src="graemlins/jester.gif" border="0" alt="[Jester]" />

Someone needs to point this one out in the rule book.

Cheers, MR</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, you go ahead and call him "putz" or "hey you" next time you ask to have an action called, then. By all means.

[achilleus]

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>
Fencing is an individual sport, we shouldn't have people giving us tips in between points. It should be our and our responcibility alone to discern what our opponent is doing on the strip.

[ 04-28-2002: Message edited by: webmaster ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Coaching and coaches are a part of all sports, team and individual alike. Deal.

(With the possible exception of tennis.)

[135711]

i see the point, in a bout with a time out, maybe it would be best to leave the fencers alone to think about their strategy and refuel with a little gator-aide, and other fencers as well as coaches, directors et al should leave all alone.

[big poppa]

I love people who bring their coach. I used to stand there and play this game "what would I tell them at this point?""let me see if they can really do what their coach says" or if I can hear what the coach or other side line friends are saying, Ill simply do that to the fencer

[WJM]

Well, as a coach, I'm going to favor stripside coaching, of course. And frankly we're not able to get a fencer with less skill to defeat too many fencers of greater skills just by what we say to them, as much as we'd like to think we did. It's mostly along the lines of relax-stop doing this-think about doing this, etc. Mostly just pointing out what they are getting hit with or adjusting mindset.

On the other side, I was fencing a DE a couple months ago in the round of 8, against a guy I had lost a 15-14 DE to the previous weekend. I'm getting back into shape after sticking to coaching and no fencing for the past 8-9 years. So, every week, I'm in better shape. Anyway, this next week the first period goes by back and forth, ends 6-6. His coach, who has world champ medals in this weapon (epee) tells him all this stuff during the break. I can't really hear what he's saying, but it looks pretty intense. I'm standing around thinking "man, I hope he doesn't think I'm doing all that, I'm way too tired for that stuff". I of course don't have a coach, since I'm the coach. So, 2nd period starts, I just do what I do, no changes, and I score all the touches, couple doubles to end it 15-8. Debate the value of the coaching there!

[D'Artagnan1673]

My problem is almost exclusively psychological. Scarlet Woman hit it right on the button. I just to thinking and worrying and it all falls apart.

I had a real problem with this in tennis and I don't compete enough yet to tell if I have this same problem with fencing. I don't think I do since fencing has more breaks and less time on the strip.

Last Tuesday, I was down 8-3 at the break. When we started up again, I was more mental and went up 11-9. My last two touches were real nice. The first one was a straight attack to the arm. I saw him talk to himself and practice a counter parry to sixte. When I saw that, this thread came to mind. I did the very same thing only pulled back to avoid the counterparry and then went right back in. I had watched his "coaching" and used it agaisnt him!!! I then got cockey and lost 12-15.

[HilandDoug]

Ah, but D'Art, it's a good start! Keep this post in mind more often, only don't get cocky next time, and, coach or no coach, you'll win the bout!

[achilleus]

Strip side coaching is very useful if the fencer can respond to it. In the US, not many are used to it, and not many can utilize it. However, when you cross the pond, and start going to international tournaments, you see the benefits of a coach.

The fencers are able to execute the advice a coach gives, and have an extra opinion througout the bout. And the coaches don't only coach during the 1 minute break. The fencers and coach have a continous dialog througout the bout.

But it requires practice and to respond that way to coaching, something most the US fencers don't have.