Sport or swordplay

[benjamin]

In the brief time I have been posting on this forum, I have found it interesting that some people see fencing as a athletic driven sport, while others regard fencing as honor soaked traditional based form of combat with a modern twist. I would like to hear from people what they think fencing is, sport or swordplay?

[Pancakes]

Sport. They're weapons in name only; hockey sticks are more lethan than foils.

[Purple Fencer]

It's a sport...a game...electronic tag with radio antennas.

There are some general concepts that can be considered holdovers from when the sword was the weapoin of choice. A sense of politeness, fair-play, respect for your opponent....but it'll never be more than that, regardless of the skill level of the participants.

Stop trying to romanticize it and make it more than it is.

[AndrewH]

This is exactly why classical and sport fencing exist as two branches of the same tree. Sport fencers concern themselves with scoring touches, classical fencers concern themselves with form and tradition. Pick the camp that you identify with and you'll be happy.

[benjamin]

To purple fencer, I'm sorry but I feel that you are not getting my point. I am trying to keep my opinion to myself, I was only asking what people thought of fencing. My belief is that many people view fencing as a sport, and many view it as traditional combat in a sense. I also think it is not your place to tell me what to think of fencing, it is my opinion that I am keeping to myself, you jumped to conclusions and assumed I was seeing it not as a sport.

[BigAl]

For me fencing is a sport pure and simple. All I worry about is whether I hit my opponent first (and have fun!). Other than that I don't hold much thought to the classical ideals of form over substance.

[lefty_monster]

both! fencing is a modern sport with deep roots in honor and tradition.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Sport. And silly extra charachters to fill up the minimum quota.

[Araznal]

Sport, without a doubt. Nearly everything relating to combat has been eliminated (even epee isn't totally accurate). In fact, it's been this way for a long time. Sport fencing was created long before this whole argument about "realism" and back then, they knew it wasn't realistic, and nobody made a fuss about it. Why? Because they're different activities.

[Go? Fencing?]

The fencing most of us do is sport, but I do like the classical elements in it that stem from tradition, such as the salute, and not being allowed to turn your back on your opponent.

[Chafunkta]

It's a sport. If it were an application to actual swordfighting, I think we'd all fence a bit differently. Knowing that I'm up against a light, bendy wire with a blunt tip at the end seems to instill a lot of confidence in me. The modern sport shows no resemblance to what actual swordfighting would look like.

However, I also believe there is a spiritual side to the sport. There's the athletic footwork and bladework and conditioning you have to go through, but I feel a spiritual connection when I'm doing armory work. To know that the weapon you hold has your blood, sweat, and most likely, tears in it, instills a sense of pride that makes me love the sport even more.

[fencingguy]

The fencing most of us do is sport, but I do like the classical elements in it that stem from tradition, such as the salute, and not being allowed to turn your back on your opponent.

not turning your back on your opponent has no basis in classical fencing or combat. It is simply a matter of safety on the strip. If it were a matter of tradition people would not be allowed to turn their back at any time, even to walk back to the on guard line.

[downunder]

sport


(extra sport sport sport)

[rmyounis]

Sport. Fencing-as-martial-art sounds boring as hell to me. What is the point of developing a "perfect" lunge if you aren't going to use it to compete? And really, the definition of a good action is one that is effective, so working on actions without testing them out seems pointless.

[Go? Fencing?]

not turning your back on your opponent has no basis in classical fencing or combat. It is simply a matter of safety on the strip. If it were a matter of tradition people would not be allowed to turn their back at any time, even to walk back to the on guard line.

For me, it's also a part of honor. And for the record, I don't turn my back at any time, even to walk back to the line.

[VERITAS]

I have never heard of any CF rules specifically banning the turning of the back to the opponent. I believe that that is a modern addition to the rules, which were originally a lot simpler.

In all the CF I have seen, turning one's back is not an action that is penalized, rather in a bout you are hit as a consequence of exposing a large defenseless target.
When fencing is taught, with the 3 modern weapons at least, linear footwork facing one's opponent maintaining appropriate distance is taught because that is the safest and most efficient way to kill an enemy.

Fencing as a martial art is just as fun and posseses more facets in my view than purely competitive fencing. If all you do is compete with the modern sport with somewhat arbitrary rules, you cannot expect a lot of transfer over to a martial standpoint.
If you learn to fence with a healthy respect for foils, epees, and sabres as real weapons, you are very well prepared for sport competition and martial pursuits. If sport-inclined fencers train to score more often than their adversary, martially-inclined fencers train to prevent the adversary from scoring at all while efficiently dispatching him/her. The classical method consequently invests in more time and training up front before bouting, but is certainly no less effective in any competitive arena.

I continue to be amazed and delighted when I find that other martial arts, such as escrima, kendo, or karate, share common precepts with fencing. As Bruce Lee pointed out, humans have only 2 arms and 2 legs, so there are only so many effective ways to use them to manipulate weapons.

In case I haven't made it obvious enough, I prefer viewing fencing as a martial art.
Of course, competing in the sport venues is a lot of fun, and not to be disparaged, in fact I am very competitive by nature and therefore enjoy fencing in tournaments quite a bit.

Anyway, thanks benjamin for asking the question, and everyone for listening.

charley

[Sildar]

I would like to hear from people what they think fencing is, sport or swordplay?

Both sport and martial art oriented fencing exist. Usually these are different people, fencing in different organizations according to different rules with different equipment, althout there is some overlap.

If you were referring to USFA/FIE fencing it is clearly a sport, since these organizations do not claim any goal other than athletic competition.

[howtobrew]

Sport. It's just for fun for me. I compete, but it's still just for fun. I became a metallurgist so I could be a swordsmith, but having made one (rapier), I realized that it was literally not good for anything except hurting people, which took the fun out of it. Fortunately, I don't consider these fencing weapons to be real swords, so I am free to poke and flick and thrust to my heart's content. Fencing is a blast! I am not trying to hurt anyone, so it's okay.

[PalmFrond]

I personally think that individual's approach to fencing determines whether it is an athletic pursuit or a combat sport with a strong traditional base. There is also generally less conflict between these two views in Europe, where 'classical' is seen as more of an individual's choice of style than an ideological position, and is not incompatible with competitive success.

[Teme]

I've always considered modern fencing as one of the hardest of combat sports, with a doze of tradition. It's a game, winner decided according to rules, but when the unfortunate happens and the safety measures fail, in a flash it becomes lethal (not exactly martial) 'art' of piercing your opponent.

The techniques we learn and train in modern fencing are exceptionally good at drawing blood (thus the need for maraging blades, steel helmets and 'ballistic' clothing), the tactics are definately not.