Church and State

[Montoya]

Anyone else find this disturbing?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/05/ed...5academy.html?

[keith]

what has Soldier been up to now? Is this the reason he has no time for fencing

[Philistine]

Here is the report, which is mentioned in the article.

--Philistine

[keith]

shock! horror! Born again christians in recruiting scandal

or

Military in cultural insensitivity scandal! Equally

This is just Brilliant;

"When the cadet complained about these and other incidents to the Academy’s MEO office
(i.e., its equal-opportunity office), the officer in charge, Captain Joseph Bland, refused to recognize
the complaint as one for religious discrimination because the cadet had identified himself as an
atheist. Captain Bland then attempted to proselytize the cadet into Catholicism."

[Bayou Bum]

Maybe this is why the Air Force is the best branch of the military! Maybe, if we brought back prayer in schools, we could turn this country around.

God bless the USA!

[keith]

Maybe this is why the Air Force is the best branch of the military!

You'll be a graduate of the academy then?

[mrbiggs]

Maybe, if we brought back prayer in schools, we could turn this country around.

Yeah. Actually, make it simpler, just get rid of the Jews. Or at least put them all in one place so they can't hurt our economy any more.

[Epee_Pox]

Yeah. Actually, make it simpler, just get rid of the Jews. Or at least put them all in one place so they can't hurt our economy any more.

Where did that come from? Are you seriously suggesting that Jewish people were in such danger in this country prior to the 1960s, when school-led prayer was found to be unconstitutional? You're smarter than that.

[mrbiggs]

Where did that come from? Are you seriously suggesting that Jewish people were in such danger in this country prior to the 1960s, when school-led prayer was found to be unconstitutional? You're smarter than that.

I was being sarcastic...

His implication was that our country would improve through prayer, and I assume Catholic prayer. This would mean that those who would not participate in Catholic prayer, Jews for example, are harming our country.

[keith]

Where did that come from? Are you seriously suggesting that Jewish people were in such danger in this country prior to the 1960s, when school-led prayer was found to be unconstitutional? You're smarter than that.

So will that be a catholic/epsicopalian(low or high)/Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/etc etc prayer? Do you suggest all relevant denominations get a prayer or that we rotate the honour; perhaps in proportion to the religious affiliation of the pupils?

[Epee_Pox]

So will that be a catholic/epsicopalian(low or high)/Jewish/Hindu/Muslim/etc etc prayer? Do you suggest all relevant denominations get a prayer or that we rotate the honour; perhaps in proportion to the religious affiliation of the pupils?

I'm not suggesting any prayer, and agree with the SCOTUS that public-school prayer is unconstitutional. What makes you think that I think otherwise?

My point was that MrBiggs' conclusion -- that prayer in school would lead to atrocity -- is stupid.

[mrbiggs]

My point was that MrBiggs' conclusion -- that prayer in school would lead to atrocity -- is stupid.

I don't think that prayer in school would lead to an atrocity.

I was just pointing out that the logic behind forcing school prayer and the logic behind having an Inquisition is the same...

[keith]

I'm not suggesting any prayer, and agree with the SCOTUS that public-school prayer is unconstitutional. What makes you think that I think otherwise?

well since you were unwilling to credit mrbiggs with the presence of mind for humour I saw no need to credit you with intelligence

[Epee_Pox]

I don't think that prayer in school would lead to an atrocity.

I was just pointing out that the logic behind forcing school prayer and the logic behind having an Inquisition is the same...

But that's silly. The United States allowed prayer in public schools up until 1963, and it was never in danger of becoming a theocracy or instituting an inquisition or committing atrocity against jewish people (which, by the way, you did seem to imply very clearly). To imply that allowing prayer in public schools in the present day would create the risk of such things happening now is either mind-bogglingly stupid or disingenuous.

There are plenty of good reasons for prohibiting public-school prayer. These are not among them.

well since you were unwilling to credit mrbiggs with the presence of mind for humour I saw no need to credit you with intelligence

I don't think he was trying to be funny.

[keith]

I don't think he was trying to be funny.

okay so;

Maybe, if we brought back prayer in schools, we could turn this country around.

and

Yeah. Actually, make it simpler, just get rid of the Jews. Or at least put them all in one place so they can't hurt our economy any more.

now either both of these people are being sarcastic, only one of them is or neither of them are (in which case we can agree they are both damn idiots, okay?).

[Bayou Bum]

I was being sarcastic...

His implication was that our country would improve through prayer, and I assume Catholic prayer. This would mean that those who would not participate in Catholic prayer, Jews for example, are harming our country.

You have some paranoia issues. I never mentioned Catholics or Jews. I did say "God bless the USA!", which I believe could be taken as the one and only God the Jews believe in. How can you make the leap that Jews are harming our country?

[keith]

You have some paranoia issues. I never mentioned Catholics or Jews. I did say "God bless the USA!", which I believe could be taken as the one and only God the Jews believe in. How can you make the leap that Jews are harming our country?

well given that you believe a quick word with the almighty for 5 minutes before class starts is the solution to all americas problems, I'd be putting the stones down around now.

[mrbiggs]

But that's silly. The United States allowed prayer in public schools up until 1963, and it was never in danger of becoming a theocracy or instituting an inquisition or committing atrocity against jewish people (which, by the way, you did seem to imply very clearly). To imply that allowing prayer in public schools in the present day would create the risk of such things happening now is either mind-bogglingly stupid or disingenuous.

There are plenty of good reasons for prohibiting public-school prayer. These are not among them.

Yes, but he said that PUTTING prayer in public schools would IMPROVE the country. It's not just allowing people to practice their religion, I'm not THAT against that. It was that he specifically said that prayer should be forced in schools, and that it would improve our country.

I don't think that if prayer in schools was signed into legislation, the next day we would kill all the Jews. But I do think that the thought process that leads to thinking that forcing public prayer in schools would improve our country is the same thought process that leads people to think "our country would be so much better if there weren't so many _____"

[mrbiggs]

You have some paranoia issues. I never mentioned Catholics or Jews. I did say "God bless the USA!", which I believe could be taken as the one and only God the Jews believe in. How can you make the leap that Jews are harming our country?

You said that our country would be improved if we brought prayer back into schools.

I assumed that you meant Christian prayer.

I assumed that you meant that it would be forced.

And if a lack of Christian prayer is detrimental to our country, anything that will prevent Christian prayer, such as Jews, are also detrimental to our country.

Did I get something wrong in there?

[Bayou Bum]

well given that you believe a quick word with the almighty for 5 minutes before class starts is the solution to all americas problems, I'd be putting the stones down around now.

I like that, I do believe a quick word with the almighty for 5 minutes before class starts is the solution to America's problems. Thanks.