05-03-2005, 08:39 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Somewhere north of hell
Posts: 138
| How are DE positions calculated?
I was in the sectional qualifiers this weekend with 15 fencers. At the end of the pools I was in 8th place. For my first DE, I’m matched against the guy who’s in 9th place. I survive. My next round is against the guy who’s in 1st place. He stomps me 15 to 7.
Did I luck out in my first round of DE’s by being matched up with someone close to my skill level rather someone way above me; and did my luck run out in the second round by being matched up with the 1st place guy (who ended up winning the tournament)? Or is the placement of fencers within the DE by algorithm? If so, what is it?
BTW, I came in 7th in the tournament and qualified (yeah!) That made the fifteen hour hell-drive, and then fencing after only 2 1/2 hours of sleep totally worth it. | 
|  | | And now for this message... |
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05-03-2005, 08:54 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: MA
Posts: 7,367
| Best fencer fences worst fencer. So 1 fences 64, then 32, then 16, then 8, then 4, then 2, assuming none of them were eliminated.
To calculate who you're going to fence, take the number of fencers in the round, plus one, and subtract your number for it.
Let's say there are 52 fencers in the tournament. The first one will be the round of 64. (It will not be of 52. The top fencers will get byes. Otherwise, it would not work out in the next round.) You take the position you're in, we'll call it n. 65-n is the rank of the fencer you will fence first round. 33-n is the rank of the fencer you will fence second round, assuming that both of you win your first bouts. then 17-n, and so on. | |
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05-03-2005, 09:21 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 278
| I hate the seeding of 31 and 32. There can be 100+ fencers, only lose 1 bout in the pools, seeded 32 and have to fence #1 in the round of 32. I'd rather lose 2 bouts, seed in the forties and have an easier path. Same can be said for 16th seed.
I guess the moral is ... keep practicing until you are #1.
Bum | |
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05-03-2005, 09:37 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,481
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bayou Bum I hate the seeding of 31 and 32. There can be 100+ fencers, only lose 1 bout in the pools, seeded 32 and have to fence #1 in the round of 32. I'd rather lose 2 bouts, seed in the forties and have an easier path. Same can be said for 16th seed.
I guess the moral is ... keep practicing until you are #1.
Bum |
yeah, well, we've seen #1 seed knocked out by the 16th seed.... and 2nd seed knocked out by 15th seed....
__________________
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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05-03-2005, 11:37 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: MA
Posts: 7,367
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bayou Bum I hate the seeding of 31 and 32. There can be 100+ fencers, only lose 1 bout in the pools, seeded 32 and have to fence #1 in the round of 32. I'd rather lose 2 bouts, seed in the forties and have an easier path. Same can be said for 16th seed.
I guess the moral is ... keep practicing until you are #1.
Bum | That's what I was thinking of at sectionals...I was 2-2, and had 2 bouts to go, and I thought "I want to go 2-0 or 0-2, because if I go 1-1, I'm screwed..."
And I would have been screwed, had I made it to the second round. | |
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05-04-2005, 04:30 AM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wokingham, United Kingdom
Posts: 581
| Hiya,
The above posts are spot on - when it comes to the tableau #1 fences the last person, #2 fences the second to last, and so on.
The seeding for the tableau is calculated by taking the number of victories you got in the poule, and dividing it by the number of fights you had. For example, if you had 5 fights in your poule and won all of them, that's 5 divided by 5, which equals 1.0; if you lost one fight, then that'd be 4 victories divided by 5 fights = 0.8.
Everyone after the poule is ranked according to this number, if people share the same number, their positions are worked out using indicators. An indicator's worked out by taking the number of hits you scored in the poule, minus the number of hits you received. So, if you scored 25 points and lost 10, then you'd have an indicator of +15.
That's why you should work for every hit !  | |
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05-04-2005, 05:45 AM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kentucky
Posts: 323
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! yeah, well, we've seen #1 seed knocked out by the 16th seed.... and 2nd seed knocked out by 15th seed.... | In a Div3 tournament years and years ago, I got ranked just about dead last (barely made it out of pools), and in the second round I had to fence the number one seed. I won .....
......but then lost to the like 40th seed in the next round  | |
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05-04-2005, 11:22 AM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: calgary,ab,canada
Posts: 2,413
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by rmyounis In a Div3 tournament years and years ago, I got ranked just about dead last (barely made it out of pools), and in the second round I had to fence the number one seed. I won .....
......but then lost to the like 40th seed in the next round | no way!!!!! | |
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05-04-2005, 11:54 AM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London
Posts: 1,216
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bayou Bum I hate the seeding of 31 and 32. There can be 100+ fencers, only lose 1 bout in the pools, seeded 32 and have to fence #1 in the round of 32. I'd rather lose 2 bouts, seed in the forties and have an easier path. Same can be said for 16th seed.
I guess the moral is ... keep practicing until you are #1.
Bum | Meh. You've got to beat 'em eventually, if you intend to win the tournament. Not to mention that if you only lost one bout in your pool, it's not like fencing the #1 guy is such a big jump up. He only won one more bout than you.
I'd say that going into that bout with the confidence that you can take him gives you a better chance at winning your way into the top 16 than purposely dropping a second bout so you can fence some guy who wasn't afraid that he'd have to fence a top seed after losing a single pool bout -- or, perhaps, another undefeated fencer who cared so little about the pool results that he gave up more hits. | |
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05-04-2005, 11:55 AM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London
Posts: 1,216
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by rmyounis In a Div3 tournament years and years ago, I got ranked just about dead last (barely made it out of pools), and in the second round I had to fence the number one seed. I won .....
......but then lost to the like 40th seed in the next round | Heh. Sounds like one of my fencers this past weekend. She was ranked second-last coming out of pools, and ended up winning a silver medal. | |
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05-04-2005, 12:03 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 1,528
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by sabreteur I was in the sectional qualifiers this weekend with 15 fencers. At the end of the pools I was in 8th place. For my first DE, I’m matched against the guy who’s in 9th place. I survive. My next round is against the guy who’s in 1st place. He stomps me 15 to 7.
Did I luck out in my first round of DE’s by being matched up with someone close to my skill level rather someone way above me; and did my luck run out in the second round by being matched up with the 1st place guy (who ended up winning the tournament)? Or is the placement of fencers within the DE by algorithm? If so, what is it? | A very easy to look at the placement of fencers in a DE is to print out the DE sheets that are on the USFA website! 
__________________
John Matus
Anchorage Fencing Club
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05-04-2005, 12:21 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 4,325
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by kalivor Heh. Sounds like one of my fencers this past weekend. She was ranked second-last coming out of pools, and ended up winning a silver medal. | This is the most satisfying experience ever. My favourite tourney to remember was when I was 25th seed (out of 30 or so) and came in 3rd. | |
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