North Atlantic senior sectionals results?

[DJ Apostrophe]

I had issues with my round of 64 bout... i over fenced him... I only won 15-12... It wasn't looking good for a while... but I figured it out... I almost didn't however... I would have lost that bout about 8 - 10 months ago... but I've gotten better at adjusting and dealing with spazy opponents...

-w

p.s. I apologize for the over use (and really inappropriate use) of ellipses it happens to me every now and again...

[Welted 24/7]

I don't know, "he fences weird, he's not really that good" always just seemed like a weak reason to me. I'm not really trying to say they're wrong, per se. It just seems like saying "Well yeah, he's top 4 in a tournament with a lot of very good fencers...but it's just because he fences weird" is diminishing his accomplishment. Like I said, there were a lot of good fencers there Saturday, I don't think it's possible that NOBODY figured it out all day.

I've always been of the mind that if somebody else is doing something you find strange, then it's your job to figure out a way to do something about it. If you lost, well, then the fault is with you, not the other guy's "weird" fencing style. I dunno, maybe it's too harsh of a view, but that's just how I see it.

[telkanuru]

I know (off the top of my head) several fencers who have very good results up to a point (usually in the C range) where the competition gets too tough. They do whackey things that confuse the hell out of people who are not particularly experienced (thus their ability to reach their C/D) but people above that level shut them down and beat them bloody.

When you are given a lesson by a coach, you are trained to respond to certain stimuli and make actions that make others react in certain predictable ways. If a fencer responds in other ways that do not 'make sense', it is hard for the better trained fencer to cope, thus leading to upsets. A "weird fencing style" is a legitimate reason (note- different than an excuse) for losing to someone.

[keith]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

When you are given a lesson by a coach, you are trained to respond to certain stimuli and make actions that make others react in certain predictable ways. If a fencer responds in other ways that do not 'make sense', it is hard for the better trained fencer to cope, thus leading to upsets.

... and in defence of coaches everywhere they do it this way because they assume their students are bright enough to spot a muppet. Although, on the other hand this may reflect poorly on the intellect of your average coach, um.

[fencingguy]

A sort of double response:

Coaches generally train their fencers to be able to compete at the highest levels, regardless of the talent or aptitude that person shows. The reason they provide specific stimuli that people will only see at the highest levels of tournaments is because they hope their student will reach that level and need those skills.

For those people who manage to win with weird fencing they are often only able to advance to a certain point. While they may have initial success by adopting an odd or ungainly style, in the long term they are usually sacrificing future success. In the case of the Sabre tournament this weekend, while there are a couple decent fencers there, the level was generally low, which allows people with an awkward style to be successful. This is further enhance by the change in sabre timings this year, which locks out the second light much sooner.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Welted 24/7

Right, I'm sure he never faced another "normal fencer" earlier in the day, and his loss had nothing to do with the fact that mr. oiuyt is an A and a really good fencer, either.

Well, I believe he fenced Justin Meehan to get into the 8, and then he beat either Bente or Janson to make top 4. Not a particularly difficult matchup.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

I know (off the top of my head) several fencers who have very good results up to a point (usually in the C range) where the competition gets too tough. They do whackey things that confuse the hell out of people who are not particularly experienced (thus their ability to reach their C/D) but people above that level shut them down and beat them bloody.

Haha, yeah, that's me. Lower level epeeists don't respond well to foil parries.

I think the thing is not that someone just does something weird, it's that they do it well. I use a parry 1 often in epee--definately not a good idea, oftentimes. But it works against D,E,U, and sometimes C or B fencers because I do it very quickly. It often takes them a few touches just to figure out what I'm doing, then another few to figure out how to counter it. But once they figure it out, I have enough of a lead to finish the bout in the lead.

And my mom was completely off with the spelling.

[oiuyt]

As a correction, Janson should be 6th. Dan Berliner was the 5th place finishers (Danny was the 2 seed, Janson was the 3 seed). The other L8 finisher was Erik Hansen (last year's champion). Should be 7th (he was the 8 seed).

Gulman beat Bente (12 and 13 seeds, not sure which was which) in the 8. Don't remember who the 4/5 seeds were (the L16 upsets), but it wouldn't surprise me if Justin had been in one of those positions.

Gulman was also in my pool. I believe that he went 5-2 (we had the large pool), losing to myself (5-1) and someone else (best guess would be Alan Cadet or Hal Emmer, but I don't remember watching the bouts). Was causing people problems all pool long, although it did appear more that he was winning bouts rather than beating people. Lefty, keeps the point low, hits to the outside and scores a number of remises. Works well under the new timings. I would not have put him in the top 4 people in the tournament, but there was lots of weirdness in how the tableau looked after pools. Not helped by the fact that only one pool had anyone go undefeated. Lots of match-ups happened earlier than they really should have, which, naturally, results in some good fencers going out earlier, and therefore some weaker fencers finishing higher than expected.

-B :)

[rmyounis]

Originally Posted by fencingguy

A sort of double response:
For those people who manage to win with weird fencing they are often only able to advance to a certain point. While they may have initial success by adopting an odd or ungainly style, in the long term they are usually sacrificing future success.

I lost to a weird fencer last weekend....*weeps*

[oiuyt]

Results posted on the Candlewood website. Should be up on the section's website soon (again, pending Tom being able to undo the problem that took away access).

-B :)

[blakea1973]

Why not post the HTML files from Engarde for pools and tableauxs thereby bypassing any problems with access?

[hello?]

I could not access.

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Lots of match-ups happened earlier than they really should have, which, naturally, results in some good fencers going out earlier, and therefore some weaker fencers finishing higher than expected.

-B

I will admit some culpability for this, screwing up my pool and taking out 2 guys who should have finished higher than they did.
But they would have fenced each other anyways, which still doesnt seem overly right.

Either way.

Ok, so I have a question: When I checked in, I corrected my rating(was C04 when I registered, subsequently earned B05). However they apparantly didn't fix it as I was listed as C04 on the pool sheet and now on the results it has me down as re-earning my C, to C05.
Im wondering if I should tell someone, so that they don't send it into the national office and something gets screwed up?

[DJ Apostrophe]

yes ben... yes you should... you should e-mail tom.... and you should have said something when the revised seeding was posted, and if that wasn't posted, when the pools were posted...

that said... nice job this weekend... you r0x0r.
-w

[Welted 24/7]

Well, that's disappointing. I could have done so much better, but pretty much everything was working against me- I was bounced out of a comparatively easy pool when things got shuffled to a much tougher one, I haven't had time to practice, and I haven't had coaching since November. Probably should have just saved my 30 dollars...oh well, starting next year I may be training regularly at Fencer's Club, so that should fix me right off.

[Mauler]

Originally Posted by whtouche

Im wondering if I should tell someone, so that they don't send it into the national office and something gets screwed up?

Yep. Definitely tell Tom. Around the time of MS registration and pools, things were running a little hectic at the Bout Committee table, and most likely that detail got missed before making it into the computer.

In case I haven't told you already, you had some SWEEEEEEEEEEET touches on your bout to get to Gold.

As for the overall results... I was on duty in the other room, so I didn't catch any Sabre action until the semi's. But looking at the results, yeah, the day did turn out to be a little odd. But hey, **** happens. This is Sabre.

[Mauler]

Originally Posted by disarmedfae

3rd = Lucile Jarry.

And congrats to Ty!

Semi between Kathleen Reckling and Lucile Jarry was somewhat interesting. Kathleen wasn't particularly proud of winning that bout. Timed out at the end of third period 2-1. Or was it 1-0?

Ty did a great job. It was my first time ever seeing her fence in a competition (I only see her as a referee). I got a first-hand look at the way she approaches a bout on a psychological basis and use it VERY WELL. Her bout to get to top-4 really could've gone either way. Got back from a 8-1 (or 9-1) deficit and evened it out during the second round. Definitely was on the right plan, as reviewed by "The Principal."

[Mauler]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I think the thing is not that someone just does something weird, it's that they do it well.

Case in point. Lucile Jarry. Many people who have seen her fence have their share of opinion (not very favorable) on her approach. But in the end, she has used her style to a great advantage and consistently performs well at all levels of fencing she's been involved in (from local and national Cadet to Senior Sectionals). Those who haven't seen her train can easily make the mistake of believing that it's just a "gimmick." But she trains very hard and quite seriously at this particular approach, and together with her coach, thoroughly explores all the possibilities that can lead from the situations she creates. And yes, they do put EVERYTHING into account.

[hello?]

Still cannot get full results. Any suggestions?

[DJ Apostrophe]

Seems like best place of any to post it...

attached are current (as in post sectionals) standings of the north atlantic sectional circuit...

they aren't 'official' as I did them, and not Brad... but that said... they should be right.

-w