Panicking

[TomWainwright]

One thing i have found is that while in drills i can perform the basic technique to a reasonable standerd. Once it comes to the actual bouts i panick often and my control and technique suffers drasticly. particuarly against people who i know are much better than me. at the moment i am trying to set myself targets like to perform two disengage attacks while keeping reasonably calm per bout and moving up from there. ANyone got any sugestions for keeping calm? also whats the best way to practice the accuracy of your lunges because most of the time i make a hit they are just slightly off the target area.

Thanks in advance.

[Alain]

Anyone got any sugestions for keeping calm? also whats the best way to practice the accuracy of your lunges because most of the time i make a hit they are just slightly off the target area.

Hi Tom,

A lot of beginners starting out have the same problem, and to a certain extent I think it's just a matter of practice and experience. When in a match, try to make sure that you have good distance - if you're further away from your opponent then they're less likely to spring surprises on you, and it also gives you more time to think and react. Once you've gained more experience, you can also try to draw specific types of attack - by leaving an open line, for example - and be ready with a response, instead of letting your opponent dictate what happens.

Lunging is also a matter of practice. Make sure you move your point first, the rest should follow. A good drill to do with a partner is to position yourself en guarde, with your partner holding the point of your weapon - they pull your point, and the lunge follows, guiding it onto the target.

I hope this helps, best of luck!

[Welted 24/7]

What you need to do is remember that at the end of the day...it's just a game. The world will not stop turning whether you win or lose, people aren't going to come and kill your puppy in the night if you don't make perfect attacks and parries. Once you start to realize things of that nature, you'll calm down and what you've learned will come much more easily to you during a bout.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

think of it this way. Its a sword fight, and you are a pirate or musketeer or something. In the early stages, some people just need a little courage.

[Templar147]

I don't know what you are talking about - if you lose, the puppy gets it... jk

I have a member in my club that is very good at the fundamentals, but once a director steps up and says "fence!" she forgets EVERYTHING she has practiced and chokes... but really, it is a product of time as well. Your first few bouts, everyone wants to go takes some names, but they freeze when they hit the strip.

My suggestion is simple - take control of the bout over a stronger fencer - yes, you may lose, but really, strong fencers expect you to act and fence a certain way - ie - timid, on tilt, etc. Keep cool, and try to do what they don't expect. Remember, especially in a DE, you have 15 touches to figure them out, assess weakness, and exploit. And if you lose, you lose. You will at least learn what they are strong at for the next time.

[HDG]

What is the source of your anxiety and panic? Are you worried about winning? Are you worried about how you are being perceived? Although it's easier said than done, try to put these things out of your head. Take some deep breaths before the bout and during each halt. Relax your upper body; tense muscles don't perform as well as relaxed ones.

Practice bouts are precisely that, practice. When you're up against someone who is more experienced and fencing at a higher level, don't worry about beating them (or even not getting beat by them), concentrate on working on a couple of specific moves or techniques. Don't worry about whether they work, but just focus on doing them correctly. The practice bout is an extension / continuation of your drills and lesson.

When you're done, ask your opponent and the director for as much feedback as they will give you: what do they think you did right, what did you do wrong, what are your strengths, what do they think you should work on.

I hope that this wasn't overly obvious or patronizing, but these are things I have to remind myself of periodically.

[TomWainwright]

im not realy scared of losing... i expect to im one of only two beginners there at the moment.. its more a kind of a primal panic (sounds pretentious i know) im not realy scared im just intimdated by someone wielding a metal object at me with considerably more skill than me so my instinct is to react as quickly as possible which is not a good thing because as my instructer says its about the timing more than the speed... i once retreated so fast from a lunge i fell on my arse. and also my instinct is to hit the other persons blade away as much as possible to stop it from getting me.
thanks for the advice though

[HDG]

I guess that I misread your concerns, so sorry for answering a question that you didn't ask. Given the very natural concern with having a piece of steel brandished at you, maybe some de-sensitization. Just take a couple of hits every practice: straight extensions, lunges maybe even fleches to condition your mind into accepting that there is nothing life-threatening at stake. Deep breathing advice still stands, however.

PS Are you getting individual instruction?

[Larrison]

I hate to say it, but what you have is not uncommon particularly in beginner fencers. You can practice fine, but in a free bout you sort of lose focus -- everything that you learned sort of goes away and your mind goes blank.

Not uncommon. Dude, don't worry too much about it -- and since you've identified your problem, you've got half way to fixing it.

Now, how to fix it?

First, practice *hard* full speed if you can, and try to drill into your muscles and brain what you need to do. That will give you more confidence in what you can do, and you should start finding you have some pre-programmed reflexes that might surprize you.

Next, you need to bout. Don't worry now about having your mind go blank. Just work on it. Slow things down in bouts -- they're for practice. You'll still go blank, but if you start off with an idea of what you want to do, and what you should do, when you speed up and go blank you'll be starting from a good starting point.

Now, sit and watch a bout from a couple of experienced fencers. Watch their hands, watch their bodies, and watch their movements. See if you can dissect what they are going in a series of actions, and figure out what one guy was trying to pull off, and what the other did. This helps build up a mental picture in your mind of what someone might pull on you, and what you might do, which helps get you out of the "blank" when you bout.

Lastly, every time you bout, pick a small goal and work for it -- like try to execute a good advance, extend, disengage, hit. Don't worry if you don't win, but each time you go on guard, try to set up for that and hit it. Do the same for a parry riposte, or keeping good distance, or executing a parry/ retreat, etc. By focusing on a small goal, you pull your mind away from the "blank" and set up for proper actions.

As you build up a little more experience, the blank starts to fade in bouting. You should start seeing more of what the other person is doing and feel you are doing more in response. Add in some actions of your own to try to take command of the strip, and challenge yourself a little bit each time to either do something perfectly you've been practicing.

What you're doing now is not uncommon -- but should fade fairly quickly, if you pay attention and work at learning. Bouting is *fun* -- its where you get to practice everything you've learned in a free form manner, and its fun in that other people will show you things you've not seen before and you can try out everything you know in response.

P.S. For practicing accuracy in lunging, you can try two things. Find a wall, and lunge against it. Pick a spot and do an advance lunge and try to put the point right on the spot. Do that five times, and then do a disenage while lunging and hit the spot. Etc Now try to hit different spots. Some folks try to lunge and hit a suspended tennis ball on a string. Secondly, practice point control on something. Some places have setups with wires you trace with the tip, bells you ring, etc -- but most folks just extend, put the tip just under a door nob, and then do tight circles around the door nob or other object. You want to get used to what it takes to just move the tip to a certain position, and that just takes practice to build up the the muscle memory.

[TomWainwright]

Thanks for the advice il keep it in mind... i dont have a foil to practice accuracy at home... would a walking stick do for now (its not ideal im sure) or would that get me into bad habits what with the weight being different and all. and no im not getting individual instruction its a group thing. and finaly.. i may be coming accross like im not realy enjoying the sport but its actualy the complete opposite im loving it and ive only had three sessions its. god damn hard work (not a chore but hard work mentaly and physicaly) and i just want to try and get the most out of it.

[Alain]

Thanks for the advice il keep it in mind... i dont have a foil to practice accuracy at home... would a walking stick do for now (its not ideal im sure) or would that get me into bad habits what with the weight being different and all. and no im not getting individual instruction its a group thing. and finaly.. i may be coming accross like im not realy enjoying the sport but its actualy the complete opposite im loving it and ive only had three sessions its. god damn hard work (not a chore but hard work mentaly and physicaly) and i just want to try and get the most out of it.

A walking stick?! Mate, don't worry about it, just go to practice whenever you can, enjoy it, and you'll gradually improve

There's been some good advice above, and I always say that fencing is like any other good sport: it's east to get into, but difficult to master. Now you've started, you'll learn new techniques and get more experience, and both of these will help you to improve... and the more you learn, the more you find out!

Just take your time and have fun

[Coup de Grace]

1. It's just a game.
2. Don't worry what people think. Everyone started as beginner.
3. Respect all. Fear none.
4. Hang in there and have fun.

Often tournaments can be a very supportive forum for a new fencer. Why? Because just to show up and compete speaks volumes about you. You are willing to try and test your skills against others that can beat you. I have had many instances in tournaments where more experienced fencers, directors, armourers have provided advice, tips and willingly answered my questions. Each one helped me improve and by doing so, sharred their love of fencing with me. How cool is that?

If I can do this, anyone can. Go get 'em!

CdG

[Mr Epee]

OK!!!!

Good question, and you have rcvd some good responses...

I'll supplement with the following...

You will always have to learn every fencing action 3 seperate times, before you can call it your own. And then you will still have to review and correct over the course of your career.

First - You learn the action in a lesson/drill etc...
Second - You learn how to perform the action in practice bouting
Third - You learn how to perform an action under the stress of competition

I will just follow up that you will have to reprove the action at each succesive level of competion you encounter... don't expect to be able to utilize the same pallate of actions in your local events as you do at the national level... and just because you have an action down cold at Nationals... don't expect to be able to implement it at the International level...

It has more to do with you than your opponent.

[ReverseLunge]

One thing i have found is that while in drills i can perform the basic technique to a reasonable standerd. Once it comes to the actual bouts i panick often and my control and technique suffers drasticly. particuarly against people who i know are much better than me. at the moment i am trying to set myself targets like to perform two disengage attacks while keeping reasonably calm per bout and moving up from there. ANyone got any sugestions for keeping calm? also whats the best way to practice the accuracy of your lunges because most of the time i make a hit they are just slightly off the target area.

Thanks in advance.

What I would suggest is to go into the bathroom before the big bout and go into one of the stalls and have a good cry. Cry as hard as you can in order to get the anxiety out. The harder you cry the less you will panick out there.

[Zilverzmurfen]

What I would suggest is to go into the bathroom before the big bout and go into one of the stalls and have a good cry. Cry as hard as you can in order to get the anxiety out. The harder you cry the less you will panick out there.

Yeah. You can trust RL on this, 'cause this is what he always does before logging on to post at f.net!

[LUDICROUS]

I'm one for rep and all, but I swear there's been some rep farming going on. A bunch of posters rep has just skyrocketed. Space ship-rocketed even.

[Aestro]

Being calm during a bout is a 2-way street. On the one hand, you don't want to panic and make every action super-big and...well...panicky. On the other hand, you do want some manner of panic thereas a self-defense mechanism. Fencing because its best when your actions happen without having to think about them a lot, so it's natural to have some notion of self-preservation out there.

Also, you mentioned you've only had three sessions. I don't know if you mean 3 practices total, 3 practices with bouting or 3 bouts, but any way you cut it it isn't something to worry about. It's good to want to work on it, but by and large most of the fencing actions will probably still seem a bit foreign as far as recognizing them goes, so your brain shouldn't instantly click with "oh, they're attacking 4 and disengaging to 6? I should try a circle parry!" just yet. I've been fencing over 3 years and there's still a lot of stuff out there I don't know how to deal with yet.

[Abel]

I was a real beginner not so long ago. When I thought of all the things I had to do during a match, I kinda lost it too. "My god, that's too much to think of." It helped to concentrate on 1 thing only. I didn't play that little match to win, but I wanted 1 aspect of my game to be performed well. (fe. footwork, position of my arm/weapon, parrying. I found comfort in the fact that even though I lost a traininggame, the task I set out to do was performed in a reasonable matter. That calmed me down. I hope it works for you too.

About pointprescision: I hung a dartboard in the garden and often practice on this with a mechanical foil. It really helps me. Especially all the little fields you can target improved my precision. But I still have a long way to go though.

[parrythis]

also whats the best way to practice the accuracy of your lunges because most of the time i make a hit they are just slightly off the target area.

When hitting in 4 and 7, supinate the hand. When hitting in 6 and 8, pronate the hand. Most importantly - make sure your front foot is straight.

The advice about lunging at wall target is good. Print a "6", "4", "8", and "7" in a large reverse font in the four quadrants of an 8.5x11 piece of paper and practice lunging at the numbers.

[copfencer]

I'm new to the sport too, and have felt the same thing and worried about it.
The combination of having a great instructor and a club of very supportive
people has made the difference. I've also found that fencing in tournaments helps. Fencers honestly are welcoming to beginners in this sport and it's great. I'm not far ahead of you, but I've grown to love the sport and approach each bout trying to focus on one or two things and ... most of all... to have fun. The sport has so much rich history and so much appeal, it's hard NOT to have fun. Just enjoy yourself and don't worry about it. As my instructor says, "It will come." Then again... he also calls me Betty when my beats are weak...