Regular weight Vs. Ultralight Epees

[D'Artagnan1673]

What is the real difference between the two? What does everyone use?

[damianip]

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>What is the real difference between the two? What does everyone use?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Weight.

[D'Artagnan1673]

really??????

I would have never guessed.

... seriously. Here's what I am wanting to know. Does the lighter weapon cause your point control to go because you don't have to put as much effor into moving the weapon. If that is so, I guess you would eventually get used to the new weight and stop overcompensating.

I used to practice with a heavy, wooden baseball bat to increase my strength. I found that when I then played with an alluminum bat, I hit better and farther because I was stronger. Would that concept go with fencing as well?

[135711]

d'art, my guess is that a lighter weight weapon gives you more point control, less weight to throw around [he he little joke]i have a few epees and they are very heavy, but as i'm a beginner in epee especially, i don't feel that it's very critical, it was more important, especially during a lesson to understand how to use the weapon. it's like the shoe issue, or anysports issue like running, wearing heavier attire during practice or lessons may be awkward, and people may think 'how stupid' but, beginners need to build up strengh in their arms and legs, learn body control you sacrifice alot in the beginning for more later on, maybe in the future, when we all do really well with each other, and stay with the sport for like 20 years, i can say: 'oh that's ______ i'll use my lightweight pistol grip" or oh i'm fencing that one from texas so i'll use my heaver weight epee' but maybe those are notions of a century or two past.

[peircer]

I personally like the really light BF blades, and put an ultra light bell guard on it, but that's mostly because I'm lazy and like light weapons. I do notice the point control is better, but I think that's because the blades are fairly stiff. Use what you like and are comfortable with, not because of some concept you have in your head.

[neevel]

To the limited extent that the blade (rather than the technique of the user) affects point control, stiffness is more significant than overall weight. With a stiffer blade, the point will tend to wobble around less after blade actions, which can help you place it more precisely. You need to attain a reasonable skill level before this becomes at all significant, however.

Overall weight mainly affects the speed with which you can execute blade motions. If you really want to see this, try playing with a #0 or #2 blade sometime-- you'll be amazed at how much quicker you can make your bladework. Your point control may suffer initially because you're not used to the lightness of the weapon, but once you get used to it you'll be as accurate as you were with a longer blade. BTW, there's no rule that says an adult can't fence with a child-length blade.

A short blade is something you may want to seriously consider if you've got problems with carpal-tunnel syndrome or the like. One of the fencers at my club, Joe Biebel, has found this to be a real help. Joe's left-handed, and a very capable fencer (he was on a couple of World Championships teams), but had to stop fencing for a spell because of repetitive-use problems in his left arm. He's been fencing right-handed for the last year or so, but recently found that by using #0 blades he can go left-handed for much longer than with #5 blades.

-Dave

[damianip]

As stated earlier, stiffness seems to affect point control more than weight. Weight can slow you down and lead to premature fatigue.

I will train with an old épée which I have assembled with two old broken blades. I try to execute blade actions precisely and gently. When I switch to my regular weapons, I do see an improvement in my endurance and point control.

Leon Paul has some opinions on the value of an extra-light épée:

<a href="http://www.leonpaul.com/products/light_weight_range.htm" target="_blank">http://www.leonpaul.com/products/light_weight_range.htm</a>

Paolo

[D'Artagnan1673]

very interesting comments by Leaon Paul. Aren't their blades very whippy though?

[damianip]

[quote]Originally posted by D'Artagnan1673:
<strong>very interesting comments by Leaon Paul. Aren't their blades very whippy though?</strong><hr></blockquote>

They are whippy in the vertical plane, but I have found them to be wonderfully stiff in the horizontal plane. For this reason they seem to be more forgiving of poorly timed parries than my Lammet, BF, or F-L blades.

I have had to "quiet" my hand down a bit as the blades emphasizes and amplifies my bad habit of "throwing" the point a bit as I lunge. As I adjust to the feel I like them more. I have to try the maraging version sometime. I believe that the maraging blades come in a range of stiffnesses indicated by a number on the blade.

I used to use ultralight bells also, but they just don't last with my tendency to take many parries straight on the bell. Maybe if I refine my parry timing...

Paolo

[Gav]

Can't add that much that noone else has said but I will say that I do prefer the Leon Paul Blades over others (e.g. BF's). I find they take a nicer bend and with the additional use of a lightweight guard (again Leon Paul are the ones I use) they are really light. I don't use Leon Paul grips - they're awful.

I read a comment in a book once (can't remember which one) that practice weapons should be slightly heavier that way you will fence longer with your [lighter] competition weapon and be able to execute moves faster. I can see drawbacks to this and personally I prefer to use the same weapon - so that I know how it responds perfectly. But I see no reason why this shouldn't work for some people.

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: Gav ]</p>

[135711]

neeval, that is my point exactly, and gav, that was my next point, and i'll give you an illustration. a woman came into my office and i tried to talk her into looking at a legal secretary position, because her appearance is always consistently professional and meticulose, i on the other hand, wear makeup one day, and go without the next, hence inconsistency reigns and i do better in more flexible environments. how does this translate into my fencing, basically the same, solution? become more consistent. thank you.

[peircer]

I'm in a pretty good place to compare the super light leon paul fie and the bf blades. Yes, they're both pretty light, but the leon pauls are more tip heavy so they don't feel lighter. They're still lighter than most epees, but compared to the bf's they feel heavy to me. On the other hand, I like them both. It just depends on if I feel like flicking or not.