Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

dekko · 04-27-2005, 06:15 PM

If this has been asked, I missed it, what is the deal with the wireless fencing needing a special shirt?

What is this shirt like? Are they available normally at normal sporting good stores? Or, what can the shirt not be like?

Any info would be good. Mainly I am curious about this.

Thanks,

neevel · 04-27-2005, 06:31 PM

The StM reel-less sabre system needs a t-shirt with a conductive inner layer which is worn under the jacket (originally it was a metal belt that was worn under the jacket). Like the rest of the system, you need to buy it from StM and pay the sort of price you'd expect from a sole supplier. Out of eagerness to get some kind of reel-less system into the field, His Scintillatingly Divine Eminence Rene Roch decided to ignore the FIE regulation that any basic scoring technology that is adopted for official use has to be made available to all manufacturers.

-Dave

Inquartata · 04-27-2005, 06:33 PM

But how does it work? Why is it necessary to the working of the system?

telkanuru · 04-27-2005, 06:37 PM

It serves as a ground.

Inquartata · 04-27-2005, 06:42 PM

OK, for the physics-idiots among us, that means...?

keith · 04-27-2005, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telkanuru

It serves as a ground.

I thought it was to make the sabruers into less inefficient yet still fully mobile capacitors (what with those reel springs tiring out their poor 'ittle leggies).

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 04-27-2005, 07:07 PM

so you basically have to wear a lame under your shirt, and over your jacket?

telkanuru · 04-27-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

OK, for the physics-idiots among us, that means...?

From what I understand (and DHCJr or somone can correct me if I am wrong), the t-shirt serves as a charge-neutral reference point so a charge across the lame may be detected.

For electrons to flow through a circuit, there needs to be a differential in energy between two points. This is achieved in a battery by having a surplus of electrons on one "side" and having the other side in need of electrons. Nature hates this sort of inequity, so the electrons will naturally attempt to 'flow' to the other side to create a zero net charge. Another way of doing this is to have an excessively charged reigon and a large charge neutral reason. The charge-neutral reigon is known as a 'ground' or 'earth' since those items are the most often used large charge-neutral items.

I think that makes sense (it does in my head).

noodle · 04-27-2005, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telkanuru

From what I understand (and DHCJr or somone can correct me if I am wrong), the t-shirt serves as a charge-neutral reference point so a charge across the lame may be detected.

For electrons to flow through a circuit, there needs to be a differential in energy between two points. This is achieved in a battery by having a surplus of electrons on one "side" and having the other side in need of electrons. Nature hates this sort of inequity, so the electrons will naturally attempt to 'flow' to the other side to create a zero net charge. Another way of doing this is to have an excessively charged reigon and a large charge neutral reason. The charge-neutral reigon is known as a 'ground' or 'earth' since those items are the most often used large charge-neutral items.

I think that makes sense (it does in my head).

perhaps.

what if you go on strip with a static charge beforehand? or build one up on strip? can you not get scored against?

Sabresque · 04-27-2005, 09:49 PM

They used to just have a supply at the tournament for us to use if we got into the top 32, then we gave them back. Why must we buy them all of a sudden?

larkmaj · 04-27-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodle

what if you go on strip with a static charge beforehand? or build one up on strip? can you not get scored against?

if you have enough charge to make it an issue, you have bigger problems than that.

noodle · 04-27-2005, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larkmaj

if you have enough charge to make it an issue, you have bigger problems than that.

heh, good point.
i could still see potential to cheat using it though.

DHCJr · 04-27-2005, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabresque

They used to just have a supply at the tournament for us to use if we got into the top 32, then we gave them back. Why must we buy them all of a sudden?

You haven't heard. Check the FIE minutes. Next season, you will be buying and installing the lights in your masks.

CvilleFencer · 04-28-2005, 01:46 AM

And what lovely visored masks they are to. So, does anyone have the cost for what a WC level saberist needs to shell out for the upcoming season? Looks like around 800-1000 just for the mask, shirt, and lights not including all the normal FIE gear. I don't have any hard numbers for a lot of the gear, but it is all pretty much bull**** in my opinion. And now we may have the Mangy Rot tips to worry about again. Having to buy the gear from a sole source vendor is crap. I would really like to know how much of a cut cockroach is getting out of these deals...

I would hope that for WC and high level FIE type events the national federations will purchase the lights (and maybe even the shirts) and issue them to their fencers that will be attending but that may just be wishful thinking on my part...

oiuyt · 04-28-2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

I would hope that for WC and high level FIE type events the national federations will purchase the lights (and maybe even the shirts) and issue them to their fencers that will be attending but that may just be wishful thinking on my part...

The USFA has already stated that they will not be doing that for Las Vegas in June. And that fencers should not expect to be able to purchase the shirts on site.

There are only 20 slots open to Americans for the WS event. Wonder if the equipment requirements will cause people who would otherwise go to take a pass.

-B :)

R. Exnicios · 04-28-2005, 12:06 PM

Are people still getting mild burns from the shirts?

I don't think I'd be to happy to wear a shirt that conducts.

oso97 · 04-28-2005, 12:07 PM

Just curious, but how much does one of these shirts cost then?

DHCJr · 04-28-2005, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

The USFA has already stated that they will not be doing that for Las Vegas in June. And that fencers should not expect to be able to purchase the shirts on site.

-B

I assume you are talking about just the shirts. The Organizers are required to have the lights this season.

oiuyt · 04-28-2005, 02:16 PM

I'm sorry, yes I meant just the shirts. Didn't read CVille's post closely enough before responding (and quoting it).

-B :)

Nightrider · 04-28-2005, 03:55 PM

Not that it would ever happen but if everyone is so upset why don't they just refuse to fence at all the competitions where the new equipment is required. That should show the olympic committee that everything is just peachy and fencing doesn't have any problems.