Competitive foil fencer using French grip

[FoilDevil]

Any of you guys/gals out there actually fence foil competitively using a French grip?

I have stopped fencing for quite a number of years and returned recently. As I returned as a trainer for some teenagers, I used my dry French foil a lot for the purpose of giving lessons. I am getting more and more used to it that I can be bouting seriously with it. I can "change grip" by slipping back and forth at appropriate times (just not during an offensive action). But so far, I have yet to meet somebody doing the same thing with foil.

So, do you or have you seen anybody doing foil successfully with a French grip? I have heard from my coach back in the late 80's that there are fencers flicking around (like a fishing rod) with a French foil at international level. It would be interesting to know if there are still somebody doing the same thing nowadays.

Ambrose
<img src="graemlins/evil3.gif" border="0" alt="[Evil 2]" />

[veeco]

Last one I know of was Philippe Omnes in Atlanta 96. He's retired now, and that is much more of a curiosty to see a high level competitor in foil with a French grip. If you wish to try it, go for it, but don't be surprised if you're looked at in a funny way. People will be wondering why... :-)

[Nixxon[2]]

I started fencing last year at university, and our club foils are mostly french grip...I then switched to an orthopedic, cos I couldn't do most of the parries with it.

Over the summer I started practicing with a french grip again, mainly so that when the new term started and I'd have to teach the beginners I'd be able to teach them the parries with a french grip.

Lo and behold it worked, I found myself able to go thru all 9 parries with a french grip.

I have to abandon the french for the ortho now and again, when my tendons give me trouble, but I try to use the french as often as possible, and plan to keep on using it for as long as I can.

[sallearmourer]

My wife who is ranked number 6th in vet 40 women foil uses a french grip and has for years.

Tim

[ 02-27-2002: Message edited by: sallearmourer ]</p>

[escrime chick]

Most of the fencers I know who still persist in using French grips are either veteran fencers or first/second yr. kids w/ veteran coaches...

[edew]

Cassidy Lutjen from Texas is still fencing (well) with a french grip. Her results have been pretty steady, though hasn't moved up much. But that could be more because of where she lives and trains (not taking anything away from her or her coach), more than what grip she uses.

Let's face it, Texas isn't exactly the hotbed of women's foil, and getting from one place to another there isn't just a bicycle trip down to the next block.

[peircer]

A guy in my club uses french grips in foil and epee. It must work for him, he's a B in both. He's not a veteran either.

[ 02-28-2002: Message edited by: peircer ]</p>

[Scaramouche]

What are the perks of a pistol grip over the French? I've only used pistol once and it seems to me that French is better for things like lateral parries but its major drawback is the fact that it's a lot easier to drop.

<img src="graemlins/dunce.gif" border="0" alt="[Dunce]" />

[oiuyt]

French grips are better because A) you can choose to post with them, and, B) they promote better technique (ie they don't give you all kinds of advantages so you're forced to develop better technique in the first place).

Pistol grips are better because they give added strength to the grip. When pistol grips are used with proper technique french grips do not give an advantage (other than the option of posting). Pistol grips, however, frequently are a contributing factor to beginner fencers building bad habits (clamping down into a fist, using the arm/wrist rather than the fingers for blade movements, etc.).

The vast majority of competitive fencers use pistol grips. The advantages are that overwhelming. If you get REALLY good at using teh advantage that a french offers (the aforementioned posting ability) you can become REALLY good, so you do see some top epeeists who use french. There tends to be little middleground, you're either REALLY good with a french or you're a fairly low level fencer with a french.

When I was first learning my college team (Johns Hopkins) used french grips exclusively in practice but (with 1 exception during my 4 years) exclusively used pistol grips of various flavors in competition. The theory was use the french grip to make you learn what you should be doing during practice, but still have the advantages of the pistol grip when competing. Is this the best way? Maybe, maybe not, I can see arguments on both sides. We did develop a lot of good fencers from beginners routinely.

-B

[suregrip]

Hi there oiuyt -

My son was at Hopkins in TWC when you were there, and he was started out in the french grip. He had a good deal of difficulty with the french grip at first, and now, 4 years later, has become quite the master of it. I have had various adult foil fencers come to me and comment about how his wrist is "almost elastic" in the way it moves.

I've noticed he does not do the hard parries that most of the kids his age tend to do. Instead, he has a very light touch and a lightning-quick disengage that have left his adult opponents open-mouthed. Although he was once encouraged at his present club to switch to a pistol-grip, he persists saying that the french grip is superior. I don't fence foil, but I thought you'd find it interesting.

P.S. He came in first place two weeks ago, and was the only fencer in the tourament to use a french grip.

[edelstein]

Hip Hip Hurray to Sellarmourer's wife and Suregrip's son!
I admire French grip fencers, since they took the trouble to master the french grip, which needs more time,patience and practice. I'm learning as well with a french grip and I'm the only one in the competences I've been who uses it, if I lose, I don't think it's the grip's fault but my distance/timing. Anyway, there are 2 coaches where I learn fencing, one has all his students using french grip and the other has all his students using pistol grip, it's interesting to see the differences when both coaches' students fence. But one more thing is, many pistol grip fencers I know would have a lot of problems if they had to use a french grip, and that shouldn't be so. Some kids I've seen are being spoiled with the pistol grip too soon, when they hold the french grip they grab it as if it were a broomstick and can't control it properly. Personally I see a lot more advantages in the french than in the pistol grip, and it's a relief to hear that some top competitors haven't declined the french grip.

[ 03-02-2002: Message edited by: edelstein ]</p>