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***Craig*** · 07-03-2002, 04:11 PM

Fencing News: July 2002

Report from the FIE on status of fencing events for the Olympic Games.

Following the decision by the IOC to reject the previous FIE proposal for including women's sabre in the 2004 Athens Games, the FIE has received votes from the various national federations on the Olympic Games.

The proposal was rejected by the IOC because it involved introducing a new and experimental event (mixed team format). The IOC also suggested that adding Women's Sabre as both an individual and team event was excessive for the 2004 Games.

The Executive Committee of the FIE voted to include Women's Sabre as an individual event and to exclude both Women's Sabre and one other event from the team portion of the competition. The second team event to be dropped would be the one with the least participation in the 2001 World Championships. Women's Foil had the least amount of participation in the 2001 Worlds with 16 teams competing.

The Executive Committee proposal was sent out to all national federations to receive their vote on the matter.

The results of the vote: 55 countries submitted votes on the topic and of those, 39 were in favor of the new proposal and 14 requested that an Extraordinary Congress be held.

Of the 39 that voted for the new proposal, 31 voted that Women's Foil be the event removed from the next event. The final decision of the Executive Committee of the FIE will be made once Ralf Bissdorf submits the votes from the Athletes Commission.

Zelda · 07-04-2002, 03:13 AM

Grumble.....

schlager7 · 07-04-2002, 05:16 AM

Does anyone know why the IOC has a hangup for limiting our (reportedly) non-telegenic sport to a 10-event cap? I can not for the life of me understand what two more medals will hurt. If it is the cost of the raw metal and ribbons, perhaps we could take up a collection.

This from the folks who added CHESS to the Olympics. Great game. Invigorating pasttime. Even a lifestyle for some. Not exactly what I would call a sport, however...

Emfuser · 07-04-2002, 01:21 PM

Sick...

veeco · 07-04-2002, 05:04 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by schlager7:
Does anyone know why the IOC has a hangup for limiting our (reportedly) non-telegenic sport to a 10-event cap? I can not for the life of me understand what two more medals will hurt. If it is the cost of the raw metal and ribbons, perhaps we could take up a collection.

This from the folks who added CHESS to the Olympics. Great game. Invigorating pasttime. Even a lifestyle for some. Not exactly what I would call a sport, however...<hr /></blockquote>Chess is a recognized sport by the Olympics. I don't believe it's part of the program just yet, just like Bridge.

135711 · 07-04-2002, 07:04 PM

is this for real, eliminating womens foil? i'm for an extraordinary congress also, let's go.
for the olympics, there should be foil for men and women, epee for men and women and sabre for men and women what is the big deal? i think all our teams should go live in greece for one year to train, either that or come here where the weather is great and you can run all day long if you want to, but, opps there's also lots of ice cream stands here!

***Craig*** · 07-05-2002, 05:58 AM

The issue is this:
- The FIE is allowed 10 medal events.
- The FIE wants to include Women's Sabre for individual. This would bring the total number of medal events to 11. Since 11 events are not allowed, they must eliminate 1 event.
- You can't eliminate Men's Team Sabre, b/c then there would be no sabre team event at the Games, and the IOC says that you can't eliminate an entire discipline.
- Women's Team Foil had the least participation in the 2001 World Championships, and therefore was chosen as the team event to sit this one out.

The FIE and IOC have also taken a position that any events eliminated for 2004 would be represented in 2008. So, in 2008 you would get Women's Team Sabre and Women's Team Foil, but unless the number of medal events increases, the FIE would have to choose 2 other team events to "sit out" in 2008.

Cheers,
Craig

[ 07-05-2002, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: webmaster ]

Zelda · 07-05-2002, 07:50 AM

I still say grumble!

Shpaga · 07-05-2002, 11:07 AM

To hell with the IOC... the FIE should press right to the top, to Roche(?) who is the head of the IOC. He's a lot more flexible than Samaranch... and explain that fencing cannot compete in the olympics without 12 events. Period.

edew · 07-05-2002, 12:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Shpaga:
To hell with the IOC... the FIE should press right to the top, to Roche(?) who is the head of the IOC. He's a lot more flexible than Samaranch... and explain that fencing cannot compete in the olympics without 12 events. Period.<hr /></blockquote>I would say neither Roche or Samaranch are flexible at all. Roche is basically done for. He won't be re-elected. Samaranch just left office and has been replaced by Rogge last year. So, talking to them is talking to two zombies.

Of course, both still have connections and have some influence. But their influence to some degree is negative. Whatever is their advice, people will take with a large grain of salt.

***Craig*** · 07-06-2002, 10:33 AM

The Summer 2002 edition of American Fencing devotes a large amount of coverage to this issue. When the magazine was published, the proposal on having women's team foil and men's team sabre were in effect.

I'm happy to see that the USFA is fighting for full inclusion of the fencing disciplines. The fact that the world federations can't get together to show a true unified face to the IOC means that we're going to have a very hard time getting any movement on fencing in a direction that will make fencers happy.

three_hundred_fifty_five · 07-08-2002, 12:55 PM

I liked the cover photo for the Summer 2002 American Fencing magazine.

135711 · 07-12-2002, 06:48 PM

11 medals: okay
women and mens individual foil
women and mens individual epee
women and mens individual sabre
mixed team foil
mixed team epee
mixed team sabre
__________________________
there are nine events here - am I right?

DHCJr · 09-13-2002, 08:55 PM

Yes, but as in the original thread, it was reported that the IOC rejected the mixed team format, because it had not been tried before. In fact they kept the 10 medals in their proposal. 6 individual, 3 Mixed teams (2 Men, 2 Women) and a combined team of all weapons (3 Men, 3 Women). That idea was proposed to the IOC, but they rejected it (in their infinite wisdom) that it was to radical. I wonder if they think men and women can't compete together?

I personally thought this idea was very good. Eliminating teams, I don't think is a good idea.

Will they give the teams eliminated the chance for a World Championship, like they did in 2000 for Women's Sabre?

135711 · 09-13-2002, 10:23 PM

so, no extraordinary congress?

dreadfoil · 09-13-2002, 11:19 PM

roche, roche, i've heard that name before, but i can't seem to recall the situation. they don't want womens team foil it smells like they don't want to deal with the us team again, they were good. i was thinking that it may be erin smart's 'turn' to shine. let's see what happens.

edew · 09-13-2002, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dreadfoil
roche, roche, i've heard that name before, but i can't seem to recall the situation. they don't want womens team foil it smells like they don't want to deal with the us team again, they were good. i was thinking that it may be erin smart's 'turn' to shine. let's see what happens.

It's "Roch" not "Roche". In any case, I don't think the US women's foil team in 2004 is as strong as the 2000 team. Ann Marsh was (still is) very strong fencer. An absolutely strong fencer. Leagues above the existing group, and that's not to disparage the existing group. Smart is very talented. Emily Cross' potential is unlimited, and her current skills are quite good. Iris still hasn't peaked yet, and the fourth gal? Thompson twins? Leahy? They're all pretty good. But the loss of Felicia and Ann is more than the US can take. Maybe 2008.

Also, I don't think the FIE is sad to see the US do well. In fact, the FIE is very much strongly rooting for the US to do well. While they can't just go ahead and ask the referees to bias the calls, the FIE is very much accomodating to the US. They know, as much as everyone knows, where US fencing goes is where international fencing goes, in the long run in terms of television and popularity. It's undeniable. It's unfortunate that a relatively small country like the US can hold such power over other sports.

Mo · 09-14-2002, 05:03 AM

Follow the money!

The IOC is into power and money. US Corporations fund the lion's share of the Olympics.

Why wait for the FIE or the USFA?? Write letters to the major sponsors. They are the U.S. giants General Motors and Xerox, Heineken NV from the Netherlands, Fuji Photo Film from Japan, and Australia's Telstra. Other current sponsors include Coca Cola, Schlumberger/Sema, John Hancock, Kodak, McDonald's, Panasonic, Samsung, TimeWarner, and Visa.

Tell them the shabby deal the IOC is giving fencing and make our voices heard. Fencing is both an old sport and an up and coming sport. The US teams are getting stronger and stronger every year. Eventually fencers will be heard. Start squeaking....

JEC · 09-14-2002, 12:51 PM

As it was discussed in the Water Cooler thread

FIE Congress meets in "Lisboa"

Rene Roch's proposal was approved (59 yes, 23 against, 2 null) at the FIE Congress in Lisbon. The current FIE proposal to the IOC consists of 10 medal events:

All the individual competitions:
MF, WF, ME, WE, MS, WS

and team competitions for
MF, ME, MS,
but only WE

There are no proposed mixed team competitions. For more information regarding their press release last month, see the Water Cooler thread. In addition, see Craig's comments regarding the votes from the Athletes Commission at the top of this thread.

135711 · 09-14-2002, 10:56 PM

i'll bet it had an E on the end of it at one time.

well, do you really think it's a wash? i can't comment too much on their style, maybe iris needs to loosen up a bit? how does she fence? tight? what's the scoope?