How do you learn to be a good ref?

[bwoodward]

My coach and a couple of other people in my club can referee a bout, and when a touch is scored they can go back about 5 moves and describe the actions which led up to the touch. The rare times that I referee a bout I can barely announce who got the touch, much less describe the action. I'm watching very carefully, but it's like my brain simply isn't recording what's going on. I think the problem is that since I don't know when the touch is coming I don't know when to start "memorizing" the action. It's been about 7 months since my return to fencing and I'm one of the better fencers in my club, but that doesn't seem to help at all.

My question is, how do you acquire the ability to describe the actions that lead up to a touch?

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by bwoodward

My coach and a couple of other people in my club can referee a bout, and when a touch is scored they can go back about 5 moves and describe the actions which led up to the touch. The rare times that I referee a bout I can barely announce who got the touch, much less describe the action. I'm watching very carefully, but it's like my brain simply isn't recording what's going on. I think the problem is that since I don't know when the touch is coming I don't know when to start "memorizing" the action. It's been about 7 months since my return to fencing and I'm one of the better fencers in my club, but that doesn't seem to help at all.

My question is, how do you acquire the ability to describe the actions that lead up to a touch?

Personally, I hate it when refs do that. When it's an iffy call, I don't want to stand there for 10 seconds as you say "counter parry-riposte" 6 times. Just call the very last action (counter parry-riposte), and if a fencer questions it, THEN go back a few actions and elaborate. I guess that's just a personal preference, though.

I think that as for most other aspects of directing, the best way is probably to keep watching bouts, and people directing them. The more you watch, the better you know what's going on. And as I said, don't worry about it if you can't call an action from 10 steps before, so long as you can call the final action, which is what counts.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Exactly right, when reffing you don't want to call everything that happened between when you called fence and halt. You want to call the final action and that is it. I find it helpful, if I'm havign a rough night directing, to mumble what is happening to myself under my breath. So while walking and watching I'm telling myself what's happening, that way I a. can't forget what happened, and b. am analyzing what I'm seeing the second I see it, I'm not just looking at what is happening, I'm watching what is happening.

[arkady_tsep]

This link might be useful for those wanting to learn how to ref.

http://www.fencingofficials.org/Info...rReferees.html

[Purple Fencer]

Observe other good refs
LEARN the rules
Attend a director's training session
Apply the rules and don't care who wins
Be willing and able to put aside club affiliations if you're directing a friend
Take the plunge and direct as often as you can...

[LUDICROUS]

Bah, reffing. Nothing worse than two fencers stopping, then BOTH of them staring at you menacingly while you try to remember what happened..

I'm a pathetic referee, but what I (try ) do is (again, try!) memorise the actions as they happen, and call the last ones.

People occasionally get annoyed with the calls, but thats THEIR fault for being damn faster than I can usually follow

[Aestro]

The most obvious answer is practice. This can occur both as a ref and a fencer - sometimes during practice I'll simply sacrifice a touch or two to observe my opponent, and I hope it makes me the better the ref (and fencer). Offer to direct practice bouts or the like, and possibly at local tournaments once you have a bit of confidence.

Confidence is a big thing as a ref - don't back down unless you realize a mistake ON YOUR OWN, or if both fencers disagree with a call on the same basis. Early on, I go by the "when in doubt, throw it out" motto. If you simply can't call an action, then don't. I've always found it a tad safer to throw out an unsure point than award one - fencers can make up points, but not lose them.

On the other hand, while practicing, try calling single light touches, ESPECIALLY if there was more than a simple straight attack. Being able to rationalize your call verbally with ease means you can give more concentration to the action, rather than spelling it out.

And as mentioned before, read the rules and know them. Watching other directors helps to a point, especially if it's a good director, but simply put - some people are wrong. There are "interpretations" of rules that are in all actuality in direct conflict with the rule. Know the rules and make the call yourself. "How it's called around here" shouldn't be the only reason you make a specific call, because as much as people argue, the rules are pretty clear about most situations. It's the much more difficult matter of seeing the action.

Finally, watch the fencers, not the box. The box will alert you with a noise if a touch has been scored, but you should be able to see it as well. A pet peeve of mine is a judge who stares at the box and always calls the first light to go off. At the last tournament I attended, my opponent stepped FULLY off the side of the strip without a halt because the director kept glancing over at the box with every action. It's just as bad of a habit with directors as it is with fencers. Plus, you won't become a better director by watching some colored lights.

[esskreemr]

One of the things I wanted to emphasize when I was helping running club, was for new fencers to start directing. Yes, mistakes will be made, but it is essential that they see if from a director's point of view.

As for your coach recalling 5 moves. This is a great learning tool in some cases. It's not necessary at a tournament, but for club bouting, particularly with inexperienced fencers or directors, it's a great way to let them see the action and then hear how the action is called. It may slow the bout down, but it lets everybody see the thought processes behind the actions.

I say watch, listen, and learn then try.

[Welted 24/7]

On the occasions that I'm forced to direct, I try to keep the following things in mind-

One- If you have to stand there going "Umm..." for more than 3 or 4 seconds, then you don't really know what happened, so just throw it out. Like Aestro said, better that nobody get the touch if you're not sure than giving it to the wrong person.

Two- Directing is half knowing what you're talking about, and half SOUNDING like you know what you're talking about. Don't stand there going "Well...erm...it was, uh..." Even if you make the right call, it's gonna sound like the wrong call if you're sheepish when you make it. Make a call, don't ask a question. Be definitive.

Three- Stick to your guns and don't let the fencers boss you around. Remember, they're bound by the rules to listen to YOU, not the other way around. I once had somebody try to tell me that the point-in-line that he impaled himself on "wasn't in time" when his opponent had been scoring on everybody else with it all day. Needless to say, he was the only one in the room who thought it was his touch. Went off whining about how he wanted a new director, then got it called against him again in a DE later in the day.

Four- Corollary to number three- for the love of god, don't change your calls after you've made them. I dunno about the rest of you guys, but I usually lose confidence in a director who changes their calls because one of the fencers complained.

Five- Be consistent. Don't call a parry-riposte on one phrase and a beat-attack on the next if it was the same action. This is my personal biggest pet peeve, when a director can't call the same thing twice. This isn't a Scantron test. It's okay to give the same answer more than once.

[Damon Scaggs]

Practice practice practice... Becoming a good referee is much like becoming a good fencer. You must train at it. Find someone who can help teach you. If you are the early stages of your career go to club and referee, but listen to the fencers on the strip. If you aren't certain, ask them what happened. Try and figure out what you are seeing correctly and what you are not tracking with them on. If you are more advanced, find a mentor. Watch them doing high level bouts and try to apply what you see.

[kalivor]

1. Read the rules.
2. Attend clinics if/when they are available.
3. Watch good referees.
4. Referee as often as possible. Avoid abstaining when possible, particularly in practice scenarios where it doesn't matter if you give the wrong person the point. You'll improve more by trying to sort out the action than giving up on it.

Particularly useful are fencing DVDs. Watch the action. Hit pause. Make the call. Hit play. See what the referee called ... if different, rewind and watch the action again (maybe in slow-mo): What did you miss?

[grotto]

Practice and take every opportunity to listen and watch a good director. As for calling 5 actions, most good directors will do this at club as a training aid for newer fencers. Typically newbies don't have a clue what they did or how they got the touch, putting the phrase in words how the director sees it gives context to what they just did, as well as clues as to how to score next time.

I typically don't see this sort of thing at tournaments.

[Greg]

Its toughest with two bad fencers - those who don't comprehend right of way or the need to parry. I stick to calling the last two actions that led to the touch.

[dekko]

Two things you can do to become a better ref:

1. Ref every bout you can find no matter what level.

2. Watch good reffing and ask that ref questions about calls they made and why.

Do these two things and you will be way ahead of most other refs.

Good Luck.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

One of the new Sabre fencers at Smith was at a tournament earlier this year, and during a round when the other team we were supposed to fence and we had a director we'd already become friendly with (and she knew he could direct well), she asked him the same thing.......

his response was something to the effect of "most of the time you know who got the touch. trust yourself. then figure out how it got there. "

personally, i try and keep track of who has right of way. "ok... left is attacking.... left fell short, now right has RoW..." etc..........

then again, i'm pretty bad. but i like to believe that realizing how bad i am is the first step to eventually being good. i also try not to perpetrate my badness upon others when it counts, unlike some.