Chip installation

[Bill Powers]

Hello everyone,
I was wondering if anyone knew about the Blue Gauntlet scoring box (French
made - SG11 is the only info I could find physically on the box) and the
ease of the new timing chip installation. We were told it would take a few
months to get the box back if we sent it and we really don't want to be that
long w/out it. We would like to buy the chip and put it in ourselves. I
was told it was fairly simple with the Triplett boxes and hoping the same is
true for this one. Thanks much,

bill...
--)-----------

[David Neevel]

The problem with the new model SG boxes (SG-11, SG-12ST, basically all
the ones with the LED arrays for lights) is that they don't have a
socketed chip that you can swap out. They use flash-updateable memory,
with non-standard interface hardware that only Ted Li has possession of
in the US. So it'll have to be sent in to Ted (via Blue Gauntlet). My
advice is to wait until everything settles out with regards to the
timings (it's likely there will be further changes, given all the
problems with strong, direct thrusts not registering) before having it
updated. As for why SG went this route, that's something I can't
answer; maybe they just thought flash was 'cool' without thinking
through the logistics of upgrading units in the field, maybe they want
to prevent people from just buying one copy of the firmware and then
making more with a PROM-burner.

To my knowledege, Triplette requires their boxes to be sent in, rather
than sending out chips. Given that Triplette boxes have a less than
stellar reputation, I certainly wouldn't go out and buy one just on the
thinking that it might be easier to update.

The boxes that do have socketed firmware that can be user-rechipped
include the Eigertek, the Favero, and the old model SGs (SG-12 with the
incandescent lights). Eigertek has the upgrade chip available for free,
while Favero and SG-12 chips cost US$40-50. Allstar boxes also have
socketed firmware, but the new chips cost on the order of $90-100. If
you're in the UK, Leon Paul will update boxes if you send them in (and
if they're a model that can be updated). Blue Sky promises free
upgrades, but I don't know if the firmware for those can be user-upgraded.

I'll reiterate that, since it appears there may be at least one revision
of the timings coming down the pipe, you might want to wait until things
have solidified before laying out money for new chips. In the case of
the Eigertek, where upgrade chips are sent out for free, there's no
reason to wait.

-Dave


Bill Powers wrote:

>Hello everyone,
>I was wondering if anyone knew about the Blue Gauntlet scoring box (French
>made - SG11 is the only info I could find physically on the box) and the
>ease of the new timing chip installation. We were told it would take a few
>months to get the box back if we sent it and we really don't want to be that
>long w/out it. We would like to buy the chip and put it in ourselves. I
>was told it was fairly simple with the Triplett boxes and hoping the same is
>true for this one. Thanks much,
>
>bill...
>--)-----------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Bill Powers]

Thanks Dave, I appreciate the input. We were waiting 'till everything
settled a bit but thought, if it were possible to update it ourselves (even
temporarily), it would be good to be able to practice with the new timing.
For now, it looks like we'll be waiting for a while. Thanks again, you've
been a huge help.

bill...
--)-----------





"David Neevel" <neevel@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:116jfr8nlecpd90@corp.supernews.com...
> The problem with the new model SG boxes (SG-11, SG-12ST, basically all
> the ones with the LED arrays for lights) is that they don't have a
> socketed chip that you can swap out. They use flash-updateable memory,
> with non-standard interface hardware that only Ted Li has possession of
> in the US. So it'll have to be sent in to Ted (via Blue Gauntlet). My
> advice is to wait until everything settles out with regards to the
> timings (it's likely there will be further changes, given all the
> problems with strong, direct thrusts not registering) before having it
> updated. As for why SG went this route, that's something I can't
> answer; maybe they just thought flash was 'cool' without thinking
> through the logistics of upgrading units in the field, maybe they want
> to prevent people from just buying one copy of the firmware and then
> making more with a PROM-burner.
>
> To my knowledege, Triplette requires their boxes to be sent in, rather
> than sending out chips. Given that Triplette boxes have a less than
> stellar reputation, I certainly wouldn't go out and buy one just on the
> thinking that it might be easier to update.
>
> The boxes that do have socketed firmware that can be user-rechipped
> include the Eigertek, the Favero, and the old model SGs (SG-12 with the
> incandescent lights). Eigertek has the upgrade chip available for free,
> while Favero and SG-12 chips cost US$40-50. Allstar boxes also have
> socketed firmware, but the new chips cost on the order of $90-100. If
> you're in the UK, Leon Paul will update boxes if you send them in (and
> if they're a model that can be updated). Blue Sky promises free
> upgrades, but I don't know if the firmware for those can be user-upgraded.
>
> I'll reiterate that, since it appears there may be at least one revision
> of the timings coming down the pipe, you might want to wait until things
> have solidified before laying out money for new chips. In the case of
> the Eigertek, where upgrade chips are sent out for free, there's no
> reason to wait.
>
> -Dave
>
>
> Bill Powers wrote:
>
> >Hello everyone,
> >I was wondering if anyone knew about the Blue Gauntlet scoring box
(French
> >made - SG11 is the only info I could find physically on the box) and the
> >ease of the new timing chip installation. We were told it would take a
few
> >months to get the box back if we sent it and we really don't want to be
that
> >long w/out it. We would like to buy the chip and put it in ourselves. I
> >was told it was fairly simple with the Triplett boxes and hoping the same
is
> >true for this one. Thanks much,
> >
> >bill...
> >--)-----------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Dieter Schlaepfer]

David Neevel wrote:

<snip>

> Eigertek has the upgrade chip available for free,
> while Favero and SG-12 chips cost US$40-50.

A small correction here. When the FIE announces that the
timings will be *permanent* rather than "experimental" or
"provisional," Eigertek will provide upgrades for free (you
only pay for shipping). In the meantime, considering that
the FIE may make further changes, chips with interim timings
are available from American Fencers Supply for $25. You can
either send in your Eigertek for the upgrade, or you can
install the chip yourself (it takes only about two minutes
or less to install the chip). We just cannot supply free
upgrades for what is turning out to be inadequately-tested,
yearly timing changes.

Best wishes,

Dieter

Dieter Schlaepfer
President, Eigertek

[Tyson Patterson]

Actually, my club did swap our SG-11 chip ourself. The main problem is
there are several versions of the SG-11, and you need to make sure you get
the right chip. You need to look at the sound knob/button, weapon selection
button, etc. to determine which model you have. Of course, if the rules are
changed again we will need to buy another chip I believe we got our
SG-11 chip from Absolute Fencing (Amanda).

Tyson Patterson
Durendal Fencing Club

[David Neevel]

You're thinking of the old SG-12s, Tyson, which did use a socketed chip
for firmware. The SG-11 is the newer, "entry-level" SG box which has
arrays of bi-color LED (i.e., the valid and off-target signals use the
same array, but just switch on a different color) instead of
incandescent lamps. You make an important point for people planning on
upgrading SG-12s: there are a variety of 'point revisions' for the old
SG-12 which each take a different firmware version. Ted Li has prepared
a sheet showing all the different SG models and sub-models which you
should be able to get through Blue Gauntlet.

-Dave

Tyson Patterson wrote:

>Actually, my club did swap our SG-11 chip ourself. The main problem is
>there are several versions of the SG-11, and you need to make sure you get
>the right chip. You need to look at the sound knob/button, weapon selection
>button, etc. to determine which model you have. Of course, if the rules are
>changed again we will need to buy another chip I believe we got our
>SG-11 chip from Absolute Fencing (Amanda).
>
>Tyson Patterson
>Durendal Fencing Club
>
>
>
>

[Tyson Patterson]

Dave,

Sorry for the confusion. We do have the older style box, which I still
consider the best scoring machines every made

Tyson

"David Neevel" <neevel@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:116u0bj3osc1edf@corp.supernews.com...
> You're thinking of the old SG-12s, Tyson, which did use a socketed chip
> for firmware. The SG-11 is the newer, "entry-level" SG box which has
> arrays of bi-color LED (i.e., the valid and off-target signals use the
> same array, but just switch on a different color) instead of
> incandescent lamps. You make an important point for people planning on
> upgrading SG-12s: there are a variety of 'point revisions' for the old
> SG-12 which each take a different firmware version. Ted Li has prepared
> a sheet showing all the different SG models and sub-models which you
> should be able to get through Blue Gauntlet.
>
> -Dave
>
> Tyson Patterson wrote:
>
> >Actually, my club did swap our SG-11 chip ourself. The main problem is
> >there are several versions of the SG-11, and you need to make sure you
get
> >the right chip. You need to look at the sound knob/button, weapon
selection
> >button, etc. to determine which model you have. Of course, if the rules
are
> >changed again we will need to buy another chip I believe we got our
> >SG-11 chip from Absolute Fencing (Amanda).
> >
> >Tyson Patterson
> >Durendal Fencing Club
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Martin J. Green]

"Bill Powers" <afoilish1@gibberish.cox.net> wrote in message
news:Fcuae.15424$Z73.258@lakeread04...
>
> Thanks Dave, I appreciate the input. We were waiting 'till everything
> settled a bit but thought, if it were possible to update it ourselves
> (even
> temporarily), it would be good to be able to practice with the new timing.
> For now, it looks like we'll be waiting for a while. Thanks again, you've
> been a huge help.

Don't top post, but....

You should note that the timings are likely to be revised again after the
November congress this year, which will mean it will probably be January at
least before any revision comes into force.

[Martin J. Green]

"David Neevel" <neevel@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:116u0bj3osc1edf@corp.supernews.com...

> Ted Li has prepared a sheet showing all the different SG models and
> sub-models which you should be able to get through Blue Gauntlet.

Who is Ted Li? I was reading about him doing some training clinic that I was
thinking of flying over from London to do.

[DHCJr]

He is one of the top Armorers of the World. He was the Head Armorer for both the '96 and the 2000 Olympics. There are also Armorers College which is done at the U.S. Olympic Training Center by Dan DeChaine.

[oiuyt]

He is one of the top Armorers of the World. He was the Head Armorer for both the '96 and the 2000 Olympics. There are also Armorers College which is done at the U.S. Olympic Training Center by Dan DeChaine.

For reference (for Martin and others, I know DHC already knows this), Dan DeChaine is a member of the FIE SEMI commission.

From what I've seen of Armorer's College (I've been at Coaches College at the same location at the same time for 2 weeks each in the summers of 2003 and 2002) it's a phenominally good program that will teach a tremendous amount of armoring knowledge.

-B :)

[DHCJr]

For reference (for Martin and others, I know DHC already knows this), Dan DeChaine is a member of the FIE SEMI commission.

From what I've seen of Armorer's College (I've been at Coaches College at the same location at the same time for 2 weeks each in the summers of 2003 and 2002) it's a phenominally good program that will teach a tremendous amount of armoring knowledge.

-B

Yes, I should have mentioned at least that. I could write a whole book on his accomplishments. Dan is considered by his peers in SEMI, in the U.S. and the World as the best. In fact most of the European Federation as well as a number of other federations have requested him to build a test box for them. Also the FIE has requested that he build the Official Tests boxes for all World Championships and Olympics.