Foil timings for season 2006-2007

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by MikeHarm

If getting rid of off targets is the price to pay for getting to dump the reels and floor cords and to go to all wireless foil fencing I'm in favor it it.

I’m not. Wireless foil fencing is not wireless, it is reeless. The current system does not transmit anything to a box (at least officially. The Headlamps are what matters as I understand it), the fencers wear the entire apparatus, one for each fencer. They have to wear special undergarments that they must buy (50-70ish US) under their kits and then wear the signal lamps inside their masks adding weight and further reducing air flow and ventilation in the thricebedamened visored masks. On top of that the units that are currently used are patented/made by one compnany and are crazy expensive. The FIE has refused to allow any type of RF, microwave or IR transmission in the development of true wireless fencing and has basically indicated that it will not happen.

The current systems are costly, take a long time to put on/hook up (15 minutes per fencer give or take), are somewhat fragile, bulky, the parts are easily lost and not practical for club or large tourney used (except in the final 8 or so) since the fencers have to basically disrobe to put them on. In other words they suck. We could have true wireless fencing if the FIE would just stop being so technophobic and allow the development of a secure sealed network for use, but for the next 10-20 years such a system will be more complicated, expensive and difficult to use for the average club or division than the current reel/box/grounded strip system.

Wireless fencing is a nice idea but I am not willing to sacrifice the flavor an history of the weapons to make it more starwars and I have yet to be convinced that "wireless" fencing has any benefits whatsoever. As far as I am concerned it is the same road as the current visored mask nonsense. Expensive, unnecessary and unlikely to produce any of the results that are wanted/expected but much more likely to produce negative or unintended consequences.

[Jvanhousen]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

I can see using the sword arm (or mask, leg, any nonvalid surface) to purposerly "snag" the attackers point making a stop hit or counterattack and getting one light while the attack is occupied on the arm, etc. with no light.

It seems we already have a modified version of this in place now, Joe.
Twice at Denver I hit squarely on the mask. First was my direct attack, opponent ducked, I hit mask, no light, I get hit. Second was my PIL, opponet counter attacks into it, gets hit exactly center nose high and hard, no light, his counter attack lands.
My MO in foil isn't to remise after every hit just to make sure something, ANYTHING, registers, and I'll wear a BRO (and let's call that for what it is on an adult male: Cheating) when they pry my stiff dead fingers from my pistol grip, AND I'm especially pissed when this whole thing could have been avoided by simply instructing refs to call a prep a prep, and letting the FENCER choose what kind of reposte to use. Don't like getting hit with certain kinds of reposts?, learn to land or parry.
End of rant!

[fencerontheline]

Scott Sugimoto will be invincible.

[Alan]

Please Mr Roch stop caring about foil and practice your hobby :
fishing (since you seem an expert about fishing rods).

Just leave it as it was in Athens.

Enjoy your free time .

[Genjuro]

Doesn't the removal of the off target lights gives birth to a new kind of cheating?
Since the foil is a NC-switch, one can break the contact just before hitting, and
graces, sweeps (or flicks) across the lame might give a light...

To detect this kind of fraud, the score-box should probally have detection lights, which makes the task for the referee more complex: 'wait, I tought I saw a "contact break light" just before you hit the opponent, annulment of the touche...'

[DHCJr]

That is an interesting idea. But, what if they hit near the shoulder and then the lame. I would think it would need a box logic that states if there is a continuous break of a certain interval and the touch registers before the break ends a light would go on.

There is also the problem of how do you weight test the Foils at the beginning of the bout.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

There is also the problem of how do you weight test the Foils at the beginning of the bout.

How about this:

All the weights would have to be conductive. Then, there could be a wire coming off the weight, attaching to the opponent's lamé, possibly by alligator clip. It would add an extra step to the process of weight testing (clipping the wire onto the lame), but I don't think it would be hard to do.

[MattyCam]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

A contractor tried to reassure me recently with the phrase "we'll get it right if it takes every penny you've got" that everything would be perfect. He was not the one I went with.

Mr Roch, a well known fencing genius, has universal approval of his changes. At least everyone that matters agrees with him. In fact that is his litmus test for who matters.

In the companies I own, the bill for failed experiments, comes right out of our/my profits. We do experiment, fairly often, on a small scale at first. If the new designs prove solid and to have the intended features, advantages or cost reductions, and stand up to the test of time, we implement them. If they do not we improve them or abandon them. The "customer" is never our lab rat.

IMHO, This whole issue smacks of "big government" to me. Goverment with no accountability, out of control ego, and downright disdain for the "citizens" affected. Personally, I never cared much about the FIE leadership until recently. I did not realize how much power one man could have, because I was unaware of any abuse of power until recently. The few letters and articles I have read from Roch, and the FIE magazine, have me believing the worst. I hope Mr. Roch is incompetent. This sounds strange I know, but the only obvious other explaination is that he is a self-serving, egotistical polititian, whose legacy will no doudt lead to reform in the structure of the FIE. So, I guess we can thank him for that.

Thanks to Joe for having a pulse.

Matt

[Fernando Diaz]

Just as info,

The white lights will NOT dissapear they will be there to check that the circuit is closed, they will simply not block the machine. They will help to find faulty spots in the lame and so on.

You are right, the main problem is that FIE is not allowing us to use wireless comunication between the both fencer apparatus. The main idea to get wireless foil is to modify the tip in a way that there are two metal pieces insolated that will close the circuit through the opponents lame, (note that in this case the wire to the lame is not longer needed and so the cheat of disconecting the lame is not possible). The machine will simply distinguish between a metalic and a non metalic surface, but them of course we need to get rid of the metalic piste.

The same thing will apply to reelless epee but in this case we need the conductive piste (or an electric epee suit!), we are on the seach of a kind of piste that we can turn into conductive at wish.

BUT REMEMBER ALL THOSE IDEAS ARE FOR OLIMPIC GAMES AND FINALS OF WORLD CUP EVENTS.

At the clubs we will continue with the reels and aereals, It might be that I do a small installation in my club (probably with an encripted network) but just for testing. It will be far too expensive for them.

We have electric pistes in the floor in our club and we will still use them, we have foil and epee but without non valable foil and sabre clubs won´t need them anymore.

And allways remember that I am just talking from a technical point of view, if the fencers like or not it is (from this point of view) irrelevant. If you wish we may open a Thread for the technical aspects and keep this for the people that want to discuss the fencing aspects

[DHCJr]

This is an excellent explanation and something that looks promising. This is one test, I would like to see an experiment of.

Thank you for the post.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by fencerontheline

Scott Sugimoto will be invincible.

Ouch......

[Feraud]

Is it worth mentioning that the wires can hardly be seen on TV!?
Hey if they’re really so bothered by having this low-tech device spoil the TV viewer’s experience, how about just “pixelate” it out of the broadcast?!
I mean c’mon people!!!
It would be so easy with today’s computer graphic technology; the same stuff they used in the Athens broadcast to show flags and lines ect. On the playing field.
Just do it with a computer!!!
It’s only going to be used for the finals anyways, and a fencing bout only lasts a few minutes. Have ‘em fence in front of a blue-screen!

Jeesh… I hate being the one to have to point out the obvious