Mental Stamina

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Ok, the enemy of a fencer is mental fatigue. A fencer with a muddled thought process is a fencer who is fencing poorly. So, to increase mental endurance, perhaps a fencer should incorporate two types of training into his/her endurance regimen. The 1st one, fencing, running, biking, lifting weights, whatever, should still be gone through with. Perhaps a second endurance excercise, one of mental endurance, should be performed when the fencer is tired, to get the brain used to functioning intellectually on less than optimistic energy levels. Like, after fencing, or a long run, or just when tired, you should play chess, or something else that is mentally active, and requires some of the same thought plane as fencing.

Its just an idea. I'm gonna try it out.

[esskreemr]

I usually have to combat overstimulation. It's not too much of a problem to get psyched up if I need to...

[glowstix]

there are tons of books out there on this topic but yeah, mental endurance is probably every bit as important if not more so than physical endurance. personally, i think the whole weights/running/etc.. routine is overrated; not that its useless but, as an Epee fencer, its not as critical as in the other 2. i don't really do any of that stuff and my stamina has been fine at tournaments and practice; bouts are only 10min long max, how much stamina do you really need??

the problem is indeed mental endurance or mental toughness. i think this is a skill that is learned over time and with experience, however you can get better at it with some work. try doing a search on amazon for the "mental toughness training" books (forgot the author..)

[esskreemr]

I used to go to the gym and do a workout before I went to fencing on Weds. By the end of the evening you could really feel it.

[keith]

i don't really do any of that stuff and my stamina has been fine at tournaments and practice; bouts are only 10min long max, how much stamina do you really need??

but this depends on your level, a bout may only last ten minutes and you may not move much but in fencing a high level of concentration does have a physical effect due to having to hold yourself in a prepared state. This works the otherway as well since physical fatigue can impact your ability to hold concentration.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

there are tons of books out there on this topic but yeah, mental endurance is probably every bit as important if not more so than physical endurance. personally, i think the whole weights/running/etc.. routine is overrated; not that its useless but, as an Epee fencer, its not as critical as in the other 2. i don't really do any of that stuff and my stamina has been fine at tournaments and practice; bouts are only 10min long max, how much stamina do you really need??

the problem is indeed mental endurance or mental toughness. i think this is a skill that is learned over time and with experience, however you can get better at it with some work. try doing a search on amazon for the "mental toughness training" books (forgot the author..)

ok, lets say you have a pool of 6, and each bout is 2 minutes long, thats 10 minutes. Lets say you want to make it to the finals, and its a good size tournament, you have to go through 5 DE's to win. Lets say on average, each DE takes 5 minutes. Thats 35 minutes of actual fencing. In order to not be dragged down be fatigue, you had better be able to run non-stop for 35 minutes. Mind you, fencers rarely reach their v02 max, but the added energy will help you in your moment of decision, when its 14-14.

[Aestro]

I would say something as obvious as fencing while tired - doing other mental activity won't translate as well, because you don't retain the same physical activity at the same time. The biggest problem I face is having brain and body in sync when tired. If you do something like chess while tired, sure you might get a little better at thinking under worn conditions, but there's a good chance it might not translate as well to fencing as one might hope simply because it's not the same kind of thought. You're not hurried in chess like you are on the strip.

[glowstix]

Mind you, fencers rarely reach their v02 max, but the added energy will help you in your moment of decision, when its 14-14.

yeah thats true and i never said it was useless. all the "cardio" i do is bladework and 45 min or so of footwork and i've been fine at tournaments. then again, tournaments around here don't have more than 25 or so fencers anyway so i'm probably in no position to say much. also, i think you have to look at your practice. sometimes i free fence in foil and Epee to over 50 or 60 touches in the same night which is worse than a tournament.

also, no one fences non stop at tournaments. remember you have your 10min break at least between DE's according to the rulebook. there's so much "non fencing" time at tournaments that you can recover between DE's; its not a marathon.

[RebelFencer]

yeah thats true and i never said it was useless. all the "cardio" i do is bladework and 45 min or so of footwork and i've been fine at tournaments. then again, tournaments around here don't have more than 25 or so fencers anyway so i'm probably in no position to say much. also, i think you have to look at your practice. sometimes i free fence in foil and Epee to over 50 or 60 touches in the same night which is worse than a tournament.

also, no one fences non stop at tournaments. remember you have your 10min break at least between DE's according to the rulebook. there's so much "non fencing" time at tournaments that you can recover between DE's; its not a marathon.

I'm gonna side with DFP on this one. If you don't do enough cardio and are not in good enough shape, then those 10 minutes won't make much difference. The more tired and worn down you get, the longer it takes to recover. Your body will not fully heal to where it was..say before your first DE afterwards. Your body will not usually fully heal to where it was before you second DE after you fence it. Tournaments put your body through a delayed downward spiral and by the time you reach the finals, you will not be at your maximum state of energy/focus/etc. This is why you train those different attributes, so that you begin the tournament at a higher level of endurance, so that you when you get to the finals you're drained...but can still achieve a higher level energy and focus someone who began the tournament with lower endurance would achieve.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

yeah thats true and i never said it was useless. all the "cardio" i do is bladework and 45 min or so of footwork and i've been fine at tournaments. then again, tournaments around here don't have more than 25 or so fencers anyway so i'm probably in no position to say much. also, i think you have to look at your practice. sometimes i free fence in foil and Epee to over 50 or 60 touches in the same night which is worse than a tournament.

also, no one fences non stop at tournaments. remember you have your 10min break at least between DE's according to the rulebook. there's so much "non fencing" time at tournaments that you can recover between DE's; its not a marathon.

man, you dont get energy back. The only thing that gives you energy back is sleeping. The only thing you get back is your breath. Just breathing or walking is gonna sap your energy, so that 35 minute run or so is gonna give you the stamina to plow through your bouts, and the actual stuff you do during the day of the tournament.

[fencingguy]

Cardio and strength training is incredibly important for fencers trying to reach the highest levels of their sport.

If you're just interested in fencing as a fun past time or a social hobby then it probably wont make much difference. For those of us with dreams of national and international success, however, pursuing a cross training program on top of regular training is a necessity.

The biggest reason has already been mentioned, it helps in your recovery time between bouts. The better shape you're in the faster you'll bounce back from exertion, making you better able to win your next bout. And by the time finals roll around at large tournaments you want to be as fresh as possible.

Strength training also helps with your ability to excute actions, and if you focus on leg strength you'll increase your explosive power and endurance. Look at the best fencers in the world, they all do some sort of strength training. It may not be with free weights or machines in the weight room, but it's certainly something.

Mentally it sounds like DFP has come up with a decent idea. I don't know about playing chess right after practice, but it can't hurt. I would suggest using various meditation techniques to build concentration. I can't speak to their effectiveness because I lack the discipline to use them consistently myself but I've had them reccomended a few times.

Clear your mind and focus on one image, object or phrase. The idea is to eliminate the internal monologue that is constantly flowing through our brain. It's very difficult to do and can take many months or years of work to do it consistently, but I think you'll start seeing benefits well before that. Just remember, the second you think "hey I did it!" you've failed

[Teme]

I don't think it would work.

What wears you down in competition is the fact that both brains and muscles need blood to perform, and there's limited amount of it. The more you use your muscles, the moore they need blood. And if it's circulatiing in muscles, it's not circulating in the brain (ever felt dizzy after extremely heavy workout?).
Plus, the moore tired your muscles become, the more 'bossing' they need, becoming reluctant to obey in order to conserve their energy. So, you have to use more mental capacity to keep up the physical performance. Which is away from 'thinking'.

To keep the brains in top gear through competition, you got to have enough oomph in your muscles to be able to run them mostly in small gears. In this the most helpful things are:
- efficient movements; result of meticulous repeating
- fast recovery; result of interval training
- proper basic stamina; result of cardio-vascular training

In my prime I did run (not jog) for 90 minutes three-four times a week for a season, but it did not improve my fencing in any way. I became a good runner, though
Switching to intervals improved my peak power output (speed) and fencing endurance (peak - rest - peak - rest - peak etc ad nauseam).
Of course, your mileage may vary -- we're individuals.

[chiz]

man, you dont get energy back. The only thing that gives you energy back is sleeping. The only thing you get back is your breath. Just breathing or walking is gonna sap your energy, so that 35 minute run or so is gonna give you the stamina to plow through your bouts, and the actual stuff you do during the day of the tournament.

D+

Fatigue, tired and stressed make you stupid, so does cold. The question is – how do I improve my decision making when fatigued or cold? Practice. At the end of a long run do complex non repetitious footwork, eye to hand – juggle, while you run count backward from 1000 by 7. Get more oxygen into your system. A lot of physical factors go into fatigue, no one thing works on all the complex issues.

Rather than running on a track go cross country, run up those hills around Lookout… Force yourself to think while working out, fall yourself off that rock and more than your knee will hurt.

The group of fencers at the end of a tournament are in similar states of fatigue, who is making the best decisions of that group?

Best Regards

Chiz

[glowstix]

i have a question though: whats the best form of cardio?? running flat out sucks; too hard on the feet.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

i have a question though: whats the best form of cardio?? running flat out sucks; too hard on the feet.

Jump rope. Its awesome.

[mackillian]

If running is too hard on your feet, biking or using an elliptical machine might be options for you.

I find I have much more energy when I'm working out regularly, both weight training, cardio, and fencing.

Anyrate, I've experienced mental exhaustion, no doubt about it. At the end of my second tournament of the day, the last bout, my brain went from recognizing the low attack and responding with a parry seven riposte to "Oh my god, a SWORD! RUN AWAY!"

Strategy is very hard when your brain has gone to mush.

[RebelFencer]

Fencing is one of those sports where just running isn't going to cut it, since it essentially uses the entire body. Running is great, but you should couple that with some upper body routines, like pyramid pushups (set of 10,9,8, etc. till 1 and then build back up again). Abwork is very important to as it acts intermediary to the upper and lower body (duh). But yeah, if running becomes too hard then biking or something like that should help. Oh yeah, swimming seems as though it'd be the best cardio possible for fencing. Full body workout, low impact, builds muscular endurance without bulk.

[Tomas N]

If you're still in school, take classes with the most rigorous/challenging professors/teachers on campus and try to keep up and concentrate throughout every class. Don't let up. This will do at least three things. You'll get A's in your classes, you'll learn a lot, and you'll build up your ability to process and analyze information. Mental stamina is something that is built up just like physical stamina. I don't do the stairmaster so I'm really good at climbing stairs...

Tomas

[glowstix]

Fencing is one of those sports where just running isn't going to cut it, since it essentially uses the entire body. Running is great, but you should couple that with some upper body routines, like pyramid pushups (set of 10,9,8, etc. till 1 and then build back up again). Abwork is very important to as it acts intermediary to the upper and lower body (duh). But yeah, if running becomes too hard then biking or something like that should help. Oh yeah, swimming seems as though it'd be the best cardio possible for fencing. Full body workout, low impact, builds muscular endurance without bulk.

thanks..what i've actually been doing during the many off fencing days is essentially a footwork routine where i divide the footwork into sets then between those sets i do upper body work like chinups, pushups and core work with the entire routine lasting about 45-60min. i was thinking about biking (about 10 miles according to the computer/odometer thing attached to the bike), but for one thing, the roads are too busy and never really saw a noticeable difference in my stamina. swimming is good but nowhere for me to do it here.

[fencerX]

Those who feel jumping rope or swimming, etc is the sure path to better results in fencing competitions might want to read through the following abstract:

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THE INFLUENCE OF PHYSICAL FITNESS AND PSYCHO-MOTOR ABILITIES ON FENCER'S RESULTS IN COMPETITIONS

Zbigniew CZAJKOWSKI

Fencing Department, Academy of Physical Education in Katowice, Poland

A lot of research and observation - including a big number of different tests on fencers' of various age and experience, aimed at finding out the most important factors determining the efficacy and results in competition -were conducted at the Fencing Department, Academy of Physical Education, Katowice.

Sixty fencers were divided into four groups according to their age and length
of training:

1. 13 years of age and below,
2. 14 - 17 years of age,
3. 18 - 20 years of age,
4. above 20 years of age.

The numerous and various tests included assessment of:

1. all-round fitness,

2. semi specific, specific physical fitness and most elementary technical skills,

3. chosen psycho-motor abilities (speed and accuracy of motor reaction, visual motor co-ordination etc.).

The results if these tests indicate that:

1. The correlation coefficient between all round physical fitness and fencer's competition results diminishes markedly with the age and training experience of fencers from 0,81 in the youngest group, through 0,68, 0,39 to 0,29 in the senior group. It shows that the all-round fitness is important only in a very young age and in the first stage of training. Later on its significance diminishes. Among senior fencers the all-round fitness does not influence competition results, it only provides active rest, psychological relaxation, prevention of traumas and facilitation of after effort recovery.

2. The correlation between physical all-round fitness and semi-specific and specific fitness (as well as most elementary skills) gradually diminishes 0,87, 0,79, 0,66, and 0,39. It shows again that the value and significance of all-round fitness in later stages of training is greatly overrated.

3. The correlation between specific fitness and contests results in competitions diminishes very little and is always - in all stages of fencing and all ages of fencers - very important (0,95, 0,84, 0,80, 0,75)

4. The correlation between the efficacy and contest results of fencers and psychomotor abilities constantly increases - from 0,62 among the youngest group to 0,75 among seniors (above 20 years old). It means that in all stages of training and with fencers of different ages one should pay a lot attention towards development of psycho-motor abilities (speed of motor response, visual motor co-ordination, speed and accuracy of perception etc.).

Generally in fencing one should respect the principle of specificity and (individualization) of training. One ought to choose exercises, which develop abilities and skills directly or indirectly useful in competition. The Coach must try to ensure among his pupils' positive transfer of skills from exercises to competitions.