Are flips allowed?

[oiuyt]

Because it used to be a very legitimate part of sabre to run backwards as fast as possible, get off the strip, and be "warned" that you had passed the rear limit for the first time. Considerably easier than actually trying to defend in many circumstances.

-B :)

[KD5MDK]

Oh, back when "The attack consists of three parts: The headlong run, the blow, and the theatrics. Runoff ramps will be provided at either end of the piste.".

[Symon]

hnmm.... sommersaulting and fliping while fencing ........... HA i can just imagine it especially while doing electric .... you'd end up trussed up like a chicken!

[Mauler]

Mauler - why are you trying to run off the back of your strip? Did your opponent hit THAT hard?

It was a valid and popular strategy back when I used to fence. At the beginning when you're placed en guarde, one Sabre fencer might take a stance (not unlike the speed skater's ready posture) COMPLETELY committed to fleche/running. He's got only one thing in mind: Run AS FAST AS HE CAN just to try to get into fencing distance for that one possible shot.

At the same time, the other takes a stance (kinda "sideways stance" with upper body twisted just to appease the en guarde standard) that's clearly useful for only one thing: RUNNING (forget fencing footwork) back as fast as humanly possible. He does this to deny his opponent from achieving a fencing distance (if he does, he's almost guaranteed a point).

Both fencers know that there will be no blade engagements. Both fencers know that there's that warning line not far away. If the "defender's" plan works out, then the fencers are placed at the end of the strip. And now, the original "defender" has an ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE STRIP (as opposed to only a portion of it) to chase the m****r f****r down! Unlike the original "attacker," he DOES have a control of when and where he'll achieving the fencing distance. Because in the end, you can only run back so fast.

There might be maybe one or two opportunities for a shot as the fencers fly by in the hope of reaching the other end of the strip. Keep in mind, back then the scale of Right Of Way was REALLY tipped to the "attacker's" side big time. Modern Sabre fencers comment about how "easy" Foil fencers have it in terms of "what they can get away with" in their preparation. Sabre back in the late 80's practically didn't allow counterattacks, attack into preparation, point in line and stop hits. If a director called any of the above, they were fired and never requested in the future. If the side judges called any wrist shots, they were coveniently removed from future duties. If the fencers attempted any of the above, their coaches made them bleed in their next lesson. Basically the "attacker" could run with impunity. Somewhat of an exaggeration, sure, but not far off.

Against something like that what choice did we have? You couldn't go forward against an incoming "attacker." Unless you were facing someone who was clearly technically deficient (in which case you could count on your statistically better start to secure the point) compared to you, you wouldn't dare cause simultaneous attacks. There was a penalty to that!

First time there's an occurrence of simultaneous attacks: Both fencers are warned. Flip of a coin to determine "priority." Next time there's a simultaneous again in the same bout, first the one who "won" the coin toss "loses" the touch. Next time there's a simultaneous in the same bout, the penalty goes over to the other fencer.

You couldn't set up for parries effectively because as a defender, you weren't given an opportunity to take charge in setting up an ideal distance to carry out your defensive plan. The attacker OVERLY COMMITTED beyond reason that prevented any properly setup parries. It only allowed reactionary ones. And in the pre-DE era, risking one touch by choice was too many.

So off we went flying back and forth, and the strip just wasn't long enough!

[Mauler]

This, btw, is why they outlawed any forward movement where the back foot crosses the front. Towards the late 80's, Sabre fencing got REALLY UGLY. We absolutely LOVED IT. But it was still too ugly. And we knew a bulk of what we were doing wasn't fencing.

Back when our thighs were bigger than basketballs, and our forearms and chests were made of iron....

[Mihail]

Damn you, Mauler. Because of you and your peers, modern sabre fencers are still harrassed with the stereotypes you helped develop. It's amazing how it changed from what you described to a weapon that I think is more about finnesse than foil.

[InweCiryatan]

Lol, that is some visual. You're standing there, refereeing a match when suddenly *pop* a fencer flies up into the air. Hehe As to whether it's legal or not, I can't tell you.