Just wanna add to the discussion about carbon steel. To this day there is no stainless steel that will be able to withstand the rigors put to a fencing blade, not even ATS-34, 154CM, BG-42, or CPM-S30V. This is because for a steel to be stainless it needs a lot of chromium, which in small amounts helps in the hardness, but in 12-14% (which is the amount required to be considered stainless) it makes the steel more brittle. This is why to this day, manufacturers use carbon steel for fencing blades even if a lot of fencers would want one that is stainless.
Another thing is that not all carbon steel is the same. The reason why some blades snap more than others is because it was cheap quality steel (meaning having a lot of impurities that ended up affecting the characteristics of the steel), it was low carbon content, or the forging process was low quality (not following proper temperature/time tolerances, etc.).
Yet another thing is that you could have a blade from a bad batch. With this it's sometimes the fault of the steel manufacturer. For example, Hitachi usually has a bad batch of ATS-34 every now and then, the first complaint by knifemakers was around 12 years ago and till last year I've heard it was still like that. So I've decided if I were to work with that I'd go for 154CM (the American equivalent).
I've never heard of a manufacturer making a fencing blade with better steel like tool steel or powder metallurgy steel. These can be better than high carbon steel provided that a proper type was used like shock resisting tool steel. If a manufacturer did make one, they'd be bragging about it. The problem is even in bar stock these steels would cost from half upto equal that of a finished blade. And I don't even know if it'll be better than maraging steel since no one has made one yet. And since I don't even know the composition of maraging steel, I really can't tell if it'll be worth it. The only thing I know, when I get a forge big enough for a fencing blade I won't be able to resist trying to make one.
And I don't even know if it'll be better than maraging steel since no one has made one yet. And since I don't even know the composition of maraging steel, I really can't tell if it'll be worth it.
You can find the composition and an overview of the heat treat process for maraging steel blades in Appendix A of the rules, section 1. Nickel is the chief alloy component (hence the rust-resistant properties), with a very low carbon content. You'll also find the SEMI homologation test requirements there.
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has anyone heard of the new metal called amorphous metal? i didn't really understand the article (discover) but from what i "understood" it is a metal that has the crystalline properties of glass. something abt adding some impurities to the molten metal to retain it's crystalline structure even when it solidifies. supposed to have very good toughness and strength (read indestructable), very very little loss of kinetic energy transfer (it'll bounce and keep bouncing...dunno wat effect tat'll have on a fencing blade though), flexible and a whole lot of other things. something like a super metal.
ok... i'll sit back and let one of the engineers around point out all the errors in my post... :P
All steel have a crystalline structure they're not made up of molecules. A rather unique property of steel is that by changing its temperature with certain time requirements changes the crystal structure of the steel. I don't know what they would want with glasslike properties, so far all the glass I've seen is brittle I don't know what glass you guys are talkin about
Also, with new things like this, the manufacturing process is either in house (they don't let anyone else know how to do it) or it's still a very costly manufacturing process, and ends up with a really expensive end product, namely the raw bar of steel.
Though with the current top steel, CPM-3V, a knifemaker can make a knife (fixed blade with a blade more than a foot long) 1/8" thin and it would still be tough. I bet this would make a nice fencing blade.
You can find the composition and an overview of the heat treat process for maraging steel blades in Appendix A of the rules, section 1. Nickel is the chief alloy component (hence the rust-resistant properties), with a very low carbon content. You'll also find the SEMI homologation test requirements there.
has anyone heard of the new metal called amorphous metal? i didn't really understand the article (discover) but from what i "understood" it is a metal that has the crystalline properties of glass. something abt adding some impurities to the molten metal to retain it's crystalline structure even when it solidifies. supposed to have very good toughness and strength (read indestructable), very very little loss of kinetic energy transfer (it'll bounce and keep bouncing...dunno wat effect tat'll have on a fencing blade though), flexible and a whole lot of other things. something like a super metal.
ok... i'll sit back and let one of the engineers around point out all the errors in my post... :P
yes i have. it's not new, was invented in the 70's ish (if you really want to know i'll loook it up). it is made by cooling the metal from a motlen state extreamly fast. plus super expensive not every forge can make it and it's only avalible in bar and round form. this is all i can remeber off hand. if you want i'll find in one of my books and tell you more.
All steel have a crystalline structure they're not made up of molecules. A rather unique property of steel is that by changing its temperature with certain time requirements changes the crystal structure of the steel. I don't know what they would want with glasslike properties, so far all the glass I've seen is brittle I don't know what glass you guys are talkin about
Also, with new things like this, the manufacturing process is either in house (they don't let anyone else know how to do it) or it's still a very costly manufacturing process, and ends up with a really expensive end product, namely the raw bar of steel.
Though with the current top steel, CPM-3V, a knifemaker can make a knife (fixed blade with a blade more than a foot long) 1/8" thin and it would still be tough. I bet this would make a nice fencing blade.
that's the thing about amorphus metal it lackes crystiline structures. what they mean when they say glass like. it's moclecular arrangement is similar to certian glass. you guys are bound and determined to make me look this stuff up and quit quoting from memory
Again, does anybody have information on Mexican vendors or other low cost bag suppliers? I want a $50 rolling bag, but I'm sure shipping for just one from Pakistan would kill me.
Originally Posted by jm_f 
