Compulsary perspex masks for all weapons

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

The masks need to be FIE approved. Massive customization would clearly violate that certification making them illegal for use in FIE competition (which is all that Roch cares about anyway).

What "massive"? I have an FIE sabre mask, legal for FIE competitions ( at the moment ). I epoxy a Lexan plate of the approved sort to it, either outside the mesh or inside it. What has changed about the basic integrity of the mask? Nothing---only now it meets the requirements of the new rule as presently written, having the "window". I don't think anything in the rule specifies "no mesh in that area" or "Lexan INSTEAD of mesh", only that the mask have a Lexan window, no?

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

People like to watch people. Period!

Say rather that fencers like to watch fencing. Who besides the rarefied "minds" of the FIE cares about the desires of the spectators above those of the actual fencers? Did any of us take up this sport just for the opportunity to be watched by adoring crowds of nonfencers? Why is it more important to forward THAT value than the value of the people fencing is supposed to be about?

[Teme]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I don't think anything in the rule specifies "no mesh in that area" or "Lexan INSTEAD of mesh", only that the mask have a Lexan window, no?

MATERIAL RULES

Annexe A

2.1.2 TRANSPARENT MASKS

1. General
The FIE in its standard practices has established the possibility for fencers to use either traditional masks made with metallic trellis or transparent masks.
These transparent masks can be of two types:
- composite masks, made using traditional masks, of which a part of the front trellis has been replaced by a visor of transparent plastic;
- maks made entirely of plastic, of which the front part must be transparent.
Currently only composite masks have been accepted by the FIE.

Somewhat outdated with possibility and either, though.
Anyway, should your hack pass as a 'transparent' mask, you should sent it to a SEMI approved institute for homologation tests. If it passes, then you should send two examples to SEMI, and if passed, you get certification to use them at official FIE competitions.

Might be thay had you in mind when coming up with that, eh?

[Teme]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Why is it more important to forward THAT value than the value of the people fencing is supposed to be about?

Because Mr. Rogge values it, and if Mr. Rogge doesn't get what he wants, Mr. Rogge is bound to drop fencing from Olympic Games. And for some, that spells DOOM.

Not that I agree with the presumption (nor fence in the Olympics, ever )

[LUDICROUS]

Politics should have no goddamn place in sports. Who cares about ratings? Its the olympic games! Human kind has an obligation to watch. Fencing gets bugger all coverage during the games in most countries, so much that the "Benefits" of these lexan masks are negligible.

Stupid politics.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by LUDICROUS

Politics should have no goddamn place in sports. Who cares about ratings? Its the olympic games! Human kind has an obligation to watch. Fencing gets bugger all coverage during the games in most countries, so much that the "Benefits" of these lexan masks are negligible.

Stupid politics.

Instead of promoting transparent masks, the FIE should rather
promote a "transparent" way of making decisions.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

What "massive"? I have an FIE sabre mask, legal for FIE competitions ( at the moment ). I epoxy a Lexan plate of the approved sort to it, either outside the mesh or inside it. What has changed about the basic integrity of the mask? Nothing---only now it meets the requirements of the new rule as presently written, having the "window". I don't think anything in the rule specifies "no mesh in that area" or "Lexan INSTEAD of mesh", only that the mask have a Lexan window, no?

If you modify the mask it's no longer an FIE mask. What is approved is a mask made exactly the way the manufacturer got approved. Once it's different from that it's no longer FIE approved.

This is to the point that many top-level armorers will argue that even replacement of the lexan portion of the mask by anyone other than the OEM will violate the FIE approval (despite the fact that it's likely undetectable in normal situations and that the manufacturers very much disagree with this opinion and sell replacement visors). Clearly the additional of such a visor to a traditional mask is a significantly larger modification.

-B :)

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

If you modify the mask it's no longer an FIE mask.

Oh, so writing my name on it vitiates the FIE imprimatur somehow? That's a "modification". So it stamping it with inspection marks, or patching a bald spot on the lame, or replacing a lost rivet.

I can see this point if the alteration were of something essential to the function of the mask, but adding a Lexan panel to an existing mask no more changes it in any essential way than does putting a club patch onto your jacket.

[Epeecurean]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Absolutely! Unfortunately, organizing a mass effort of the magnitude required to get the attention of Zeus way up there on Olympus is probably going to be like trying to herd cats.

I wonder whether a Lexan plate affixed to a regular mask, either inside or over the mesh, would satisfy the FIE's rule on this requirement? Frustrate Roch's intent while conforming to the letter of his law?

You could wear a Zorro-style mask underneath your Lexan mask. Or maybe have a Lexan mask with a tinted Lexan plate.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Epeecurean

You could wear a Zorro-style mask underneath your Lexan mask. Or maybe have a Lexan mask with a tinted Lexan plate.

Like I said before, those are my second and third tricks after the FIE rules the added Lexan plate on a regular mask out of compliance ( which of course it will ). I want to bedevil the dunces as long as pssible.

This assumes that my fencing ever gets to a level where such choices even make themselves necessary. At the moment it doesn't exactly seem imminent.

[Boo Boo]

Originally Posted by Epeecurean

You could wear a Zorro-style mask underneath your Lexan mask. Or maybe have a Lexan mask with a tinted Lexan plate.

I bet that Rene is already writing up new black card offences to deal with these two ideas already...

[LordTofuDog-jnr]

Lexans are good for the audiance and that's what Rene wants, a mask that allows the viewers to see the fencer, to be able to empathise with their victories, and their losses. I agree with him there.

What I don't agree with is the whole thing of "will I get my mask broken and have a blade go through my eye". Do more tests, prove it's safe and then I'm happy.

Well in fact, I don't like my foe being able to see my face, at all, ever, I very rarely take my mask off, even during 1min breaks.

[JackSparrow]

Originally Posted by Epeecurean

You could wear a Zorro-style mask underneath your Lexan mask.

Under the new rules it must be an 800N FIE approved transparent Zorro-style mask (probably).

[Boo Boo]

Originally Posted by LordTofuDog-jnr

Well in fact, I don't like my foe being able to see my face, at all, ever, I very rarely take my mask off, even during 1min breaks.

How do you drink during your break then? Do you have a little straw that fits through the mesh of your mask?

You could always just turn and face the other way...

Boo

[KD5MDK]

I want one of those "all plastic" marks, since apparently removing sabre target area isn't a problem.


Actually, I think a mirrored visor would be cool looking.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Oh, so writing my name on it vitiates the FIE imprimatur somehow? That's a "modification". So it stamping it with inspection marks, or patching a bald spot on the lame, or replacing a lost rivet.

I can see this point if the alteration were of something essential to the function of the mask, but adding a Lexan panel to an existing mask no more changes it in any essential way than does putting a club patch onto your jacket.

Suppose the Lexan was dislodged by a hit? Then it's an unnecessary projectile flying around the venue. (Granted, blades already do that, but do we need more?)

[scrapinpeg]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I want one of those "all plastic" marks, since apparently removing sabre target area isn't a problem.


Actually, I think a mirrored visor would be cool looking.

One of those inverted-fishbowl spaceman helmets would be perfect.

Goes with the lame'.

[Alan]

Don't worry too much. It is a joke. See the date on

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...206-05-ANG.pdf

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

I can see this point if the alteration were of something essential to the function of the mask, but adding a Lexan panel to an existing mask no more changes it in any essential way than does putting a club patch onto your jacket.

Except that the entire manufacturing process for masks is what is FIE approved and for jackets it's merely the cloth that requires approval. The manufacturers may change their patterns without resubmitting samples to the FIE for clothing, but may not do so for masks.

-B :)

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I want one of those "all plastic" marks, since apparently removing sabre target area isn't a problem.

The all plastic ones result in too little oxygen getting to the fencer. In fact that was part of the reason why some of the original masks were redesigned. The current size of the lexan bit is the maximum that didn't have the medical commission throwing fits from what I've heard. And they're still not happy with it.

-B :)