04-05-2005, 10:56 PM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 685
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The sweet is never sweet without the sour.
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04-05-2005, 11:10 PM
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#23 | | Member
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Austin,TX
Posts: 94
| dont forget that those masks also double as helmets for the fencing astronauts among us....... especially the allstar prototype
actually, i dont think i would mind the allstar one, provided i could afford it and it was proven safe. perhaps we could get some third party company to install a battery powered wiper system for those that perspire excessively, as well as someone to spray the inside with an anti fogging layer (hmmm any investors interested in backing a new company? i mean if were forced to use these, theres got to be profits to be had)
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Hook 'em
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04-05-2005, 11:20 PM
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#24 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Atlanta
Posts: 209
| Your voice counts
The Olympics (IOC), global sporting federations (FIE) and sometimes national federations (USFA, et al) invariably believe that they own, or control, their sport.
Invariably, they forget that their sport is literally about the game, and the people who play the game.
No fencers, no fencing.
If we, as fencers, believe that welding masks are dufous (I trust that quality equipment makers will be able to engineer them to be safe), then we as fencers should make our feelings heard.
We should work the food chain from the piste itself, to our clubs, regions, and federations, to the FIE and the IOC, all of them -- and tell them that, no, thank you, we the undersigned, we the global community, we the dissenting majority, we the free ... don't want welding masks.
That means letters, emails, and noise to coaches, club owners, local, regional, and national representatives, including USFA representatives ... urging them to take a position against the masks.
These people are good people. They are our friends. But if we really want them to know how we feel, let us tell them how we feel.
People who hold elective office should be listening to the grassroots (I'm sure they are), and they should be responsive.
The same is true for everything -- timings, le flick, even the rules of fencing.
It's easy for bureaucrats like M. Roch and M. Rogge to forget these elemental ideas.
If we believe in something, we should make that known. Beyond this forum. In their mail. Clearly and absolutely. And encourage our friends around the world to do likewise. | |
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04-06-2005, 05:02 AM
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#25 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,475
| Absolutely! Unfortunately, organizing a mass effort of the magnitude required to get the attention of Zeus way up there on Olympus is probably going to be like trying to herd cats.
I wonder whether a Lexan plate affixed to a regular mask, either inside or over the mesh, would satisfy the FIE's rule on this requirement? Frustrate Roch's intent while conforming to the letter of his law? | |
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04-06-2005, 05:59 AM
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#26 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Army Fencer Then there's no way to support or criticize their use; there isn't enough information to obligate their use.
| Nothing should be made compulsory in the sake of telegeny.
It is strange how the same people (aka King René) who (pretend to ) defend
a more "traditional" foil by testing broken timings would want to impose
"star war" masks at the same time.
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Just forget these broken foil test timings !
Use clear visor masks for fishing,
and video to film your mother-in-law.
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04-06-2005, 06:02 AM
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#27 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: UK
Posts: 148
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata Absolutely! Unfortunately, organizing a mass effort of the magnitude required to get the attention of Zeus way up there on Olympus is probably going to be like trying to herd cats.
I wonder whether a Lexan plate affixed to a regular mask, either inside or over the mesh, would satisfy the FIE's rule on this requirement? Frustrate Roch's intent while conforming to the letter of his law? | Well, there is always the option to tint it with window film. Make it a one way mirror. No rule against it..yet! | |
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04-06-2005, 06:43 AM
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#28 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,475
| Hey, one deliberate subversion of the rule at a time!
AFTER they are forced to change the rule to specify no affixing of a Lexan panel to a regular mask, THEN the mirror film; and after that, a ski mask and dark glasses worn under the mask.  | |
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04-06-2005, 07:05 AM
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#29 | | Immortal
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Heidelberg, GE
Posts: 5,445
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata .... a ski mask and dark glasses worn under the mask. | Oh cool, we can have terrorists vs. SWAT/SPECOPS fencing.....
MR
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Why sabre? Because you don't take heads with the point.
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04-06-2005, 07:07 AM
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#30 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Finland
Posts: 285
| It's sort of funny that at the same time there's effort to enforce the rule forbidding to show practically any emotion on the piste, and at the same time effort to make it easier for the audience to relate to the fencers.
Go figure... | |
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04-06-2005, 07:58 AM
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#31 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 707
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata Hey, one deliberate subversion of the rule at a time!
AFTER they are forced to change the rule to specify no affixing of a Lexan panel to a regular mask, THEN the mirror film; and after that, a ski mask and dark glasses worn under the mask. | Well some have to wear a cowl under their mask because of allergy.
Will they need to present a medical certificate to His Majesty ?
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Just forget these broken foil test timings !
Use clear visor masks for fishing,
and video to film your mother-in-law.
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04-06-2005, 08:12 AM
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#32 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
Posts: 23,475
| No, they will be required to buy transparent cowls. Expensive transparent cowls. | |
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04-06-2005, 11:25 AM
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#33 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,914
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Inquartata I wonder whether a Lexan plate affixed to a regular mask, either inside or over the mesh, would satisfy the FIE's rule on this requirement? Frustrate Roch's intent while conforming to the letter of his law? | The masks need to be FIE approved. Massive customization would clearly violate that certification making them illegal for use in FIE competition (which is all that Roch cares about anyway).
The mirror/tint coating is more likely to be legal than your form of rules lawyering.
-B :)
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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04-06-2005, 11:56 AM
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#34 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 139
| And let's not pretend that the mirroring wouldn't be wicked...dangerous, but wicked none-the-less! | |
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04-06-2005, 01:21 PM
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#35 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: UK
Posts: 784
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by SOA9286 dangerous | ???
Boo | |
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04-06-2005, 01:42 PM
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#36 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 1,116
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by achilleus I'm against the masks on performance issues, but if those issues can be adressed, I'd have no problem with them being required. They haven't been proven to be safe for fencing, and they don't perform as well as mesh masks (ventilation, fogging, weight, blind spots, etc...)
That said, watching the sabre in Athens, I thought the masks looked great on TV. They allowed for closeups before the action started, and the ability to see the focus and determination in the fencers face. I don't think anyone thinks that a clear mask will bring spectators, but that it will enhance the viewing experience.
Was it a must have? For me, no, but then again, I'm not the IOC whose sole goal is a television audience. | I didn't think that they enhanced the viewing experience at all, I thought they looked really bad.
I really don't think that it is nescessary to see the faces of the fencers. There are lots of sports where you really cant see the faces of the players and it does not detract from the viewing experience. And I REALLY don't want to spend twice the money to buy one (or three, since I have kids that fence.)
At this point it isn't an issue for me, we won't be going to any world cup events anytime soon, but I sure would not want to see this trickle down to the lower levels. | |
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04-06-2005, 02:28 PM
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#37 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Beaverton, OR, USA
Posts: 1,539
| They don't really open up the part of the face that leads to expressiveness anyway. I don't really mind the plexi masks, but if they're heavier and less breathable, I'm not interested.
Where you get your audience-rousin' emotion is when the fencer whips off their mask to [celebrate|argue|bellow|influence|shriek|belittle].
darius | |
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04-06-2005, 06:11 PM
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#38 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 8,914
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by darius Where you get your audience-rousin' emotion is when the fencer whips off their mask to [celebrate|argue|bellow|influence|shriek|belittle]. | Yeah, but sabre fencers don't do enough of that so we need to find some OTHER way to see their emotions. :)
-B :)
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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04-06-2005, 06:33 PM
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#39 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,876
| I really do hate the plastic masks, because they are heavy, awkward, and I am not convinced of their saftey in epee.
BUT
All that said, having watched the Olympic Saber... it was kind of ... well ... better. (Don't kill me)
I know all the epeeist, who they are, what they look like, how they usually act, etc., so there isn't much missing from my perspective, but the saber fencers, I only know a handful. It was easier to watch, being able to see their faces.
People like to watch people. Period!
It really doesn't seem to matter what the watched person is doing... (I now refer you to reality TV) Would anyone watch Fear Factor, if they couldn't see the players faces?
All that said.... SAFETY FIRST
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04-07-2005, 01:38 AM
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#40 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,216
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mr Epee ...
It really doesn't seem to matter what the watched person is doing... (I now refer you to reality TV) Would anyone watch Fear Factor, if they couldn't see the players faces?
.... |
Would anyone watch fear factor, if they couldn't see the girl's bodies  ?
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