Attacking in epee

[mrbiggs]

This thread is kind of a spinoff of the beat/press thread.

I'd make it a poll, but I don't know enough about epee to make a good one.

Anyway, what is your favorite method of attacking in epee? Is it a beat-fleche? Regular fleche? Fake to foot with lunge, redouble to mask? Do you aim for the arm, chest, mask, or all of them in order?

I ask this because I have recently discovered that my attacks that used to work so well (basically, a straight fleche to various targets) aren't working now that I'm trying to beat C and B rated fencers. So I'm looking for help with ideas...

[fencerontheline]

The distance you attack at is probably more important than what you do.


If your distance and footwork is good, you'll be able to hit many different kinds of attacks

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Attack to underside of wrist, remise to thigh if miss. Attack to above wrist, remise to bicep if miss. Attack wrist, remise to opposite side if miss. Feint to thigh, ceding prime parry, riposte to thigh.... Learn how to hit the thigh, its a huge target.

[howtobrew]

Everyone above has given very good advice, so I will mention a surprise attack that is usually good for one point in a match.
When the fence command is given, advance and keep advancing until you are within thrusting distance and strike. I believe the term is "passe avant" in french. You know, where you cross one foot past the other. By keeping the motion smooth, you can often surprise your opponent with a quick hit because he is expecting you to do something fancier.
This only works once, you will get nailed the second time.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Two of my favourite actions (one of them not being an attack) are:

• Batté quarte with a stop hit to opponents wrist. Remise to flanc or thigh if I miss.
• When I see my opponent is preparing to flêche I outwait him/her, duck and simply let them run into the tip of my weapon.
  (Added bonus: you may learn some new swearing words this way! )

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by howtobrew

Everyone above has given very good advice, so I will mention a surprise attack that is usually good for one point in a match.
When the fence command is given, advance and keep advancing until you are within thrusting distance and strike. I believe the term is "passe avant" in french. You know, where you cross one foot past the other. By keeping the motion smooth, you can often surprise your opponent with a quick hit because he is expecting you to do something fancier.
This only works once, you will get nailed the second time.

That sounds like a good way to get counterattacked.

[Genjuro]

(Added bonus: you may learn some new swearing words this way! )

That's the fun of international fencing, isn't it?
Anyway,

I think a fleché is a bit of a 'all or nothing' attack. A beat fleché works great against novice/intermediate (epeé)fencers who's parry skills and reaction time are still a bit low, but against a experienced opponent which has a developed sense of distance, it's a bit of a suicide attempt.
One of my favorite way was to make a short lunge, and, if the opponent doesn't react, do a quick fleché to the arm afterwards. I once scored a 6-0 win in the final bout of a equipe match with that. (ok, it was also a bit lucky)
Now I'm trying to 'get rid' of my fleché-ing, cos against superior opponents it's quite hard to pull one off. I try more of getting into range with the appropriate foot/blade work and then try to fleché. But I prefer more of a very fast lunge do the job, so that I have a change of getting out if my opponent takes a parry and riposte.

[howtobrew]

Originally Posted by prototoast

That sounds like a good way to get counterattacked.

It is, but surprise is the key.
(I am fondly reminded of the Spanish Inquisiton sketch).

[Epee Scherma]

I've always liked to do a simple straight lunge to the leg or arm. I would lunge very slow and expose my arm as much as possible, to maximize the chance of a counterattack. As the counter attack comes towards my arm I pop the bell in the direction of the line the counterattacker is coming. There blade will be popped away passe and then I can redouble or fleche at the initial target.

I like this because it seems very smooth, and the parry is a very small action using nothing more than inch of motion in the wrist.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by howtobrew

It is, but surprise is the key.
(I am fondly reminded of the Spanish Inquisiton sketch).

I guess... though I'd have to see it to believe it would work against a decent opponent. As a sabre fencer, I just can't imagine being surprised by an opponent attacking quickly from the start of a touch.

[howtobrew]

Well, keeping in mind that I am relatively new to fencing epee (1 year after a 20 year hiatus), I think this simple tactic does work because it IS epee, which is a more cautious game than saber.

Everyone else had much better tactics that don't rely so much on surprise as this one, and I only offered it because it has worked for me. Maybe it only works on other newbies.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

What is your favorite method of attacking in epee?

There are loads of attacks I like doing. In no particular order...

Pressure quarte, cutover flick to sixte (and vice versa);

Feint flick to hand, drop flick to foot (thanks, keith!!!);

Anything involving a hit to leg, depending on distance and timing, as well as how bad your opponent's en guarde is;

Something that's known as an Alain Special: flêche as soon as play begins. Sometimes at the beginning of a match, sometimes between points. It depends upon your opponent, as well as the feel of the match;

Funnily enough, I sometimes find myself attacking using broken time. Weird, but it works for me;

Against lefties, I like taking sixte then doing a croisé (have received many a bruise from my brother doing this to me, gurrrr);

Against less-experienced people, sometimes a well-timed one-two attack can work really well, and leave your opponent standing there going 'doh'!

EDIT: Oooooh, forgot to add two other things I like to do. The first is remises, normally following a flêche, and the second thing is counter-ripostes. Infighting has always been one of the things I've been best at, and I love it

[ReallyFatFencer]

run up to opponent, belly-bounce them onto the ground, and then stab repeatedly into their groin.

[pacer]

Having watched the Div2+3 ME qualifiers in my division this weekend, my observation is that the fleche is either part of a fencer's repertoire or not. Those who used it, favored it well beyond any point of productivity.

Then again, one fencer repeatedly tried to use a toe touch until a taller opponent nailed hit every time with a head touch.

My overall opinion of the day was that the B and C fencers effectively used distance against the unclassified and D's and E's. they could just draw them in and get an arm hit.

[mfp]

Originally Posted by pacer

Having watched the Div2+3 ME qualifiers in my division this weekend, [...] My overall opinion of the day was that the B and C fencers effectively used distance against the unclassified and D's and E's.

Uh ... why did your division have B fencers in its Div2+3 qualifiers in the first place?

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by pacer

Having watched the Div2+3 ME qualifiers in my division this weekend, my observation is that the fleche is either part of a fencer's repertoire or not. Those who used it, favored it well beyond any point of productivity.

Then again, one fencer repeatedly tried to use a toe touch until a taller opponent nailed hit every time with a head touch.

My overall opinion of the day was that the B and C fencers effectively used distance against the unclassified and D's and E's. they could just draw them in and get an arm hit.

I would say that it's common for Div 2/3 fencers to have a limited repetoire they are able to draw from. This leads to these fencers doing the same actions over and over, whether they work or not.

So, I would say that your observation on the use of fleche is pretty specific to lower level fencers...

[telkanuru]

My favourite is the continuously compress distance very slowly, then beat-lunge to inside arm/chest. Very simple, very effective, and shows your opponent "My distance is better than yours."