Beat v. Press in epee

[Alain]

All good advice, especially about beats and pressures. I still think that a feint to mask can be effective. You don't need to get too close, the intention isn't to hit but to get a reaction. Just do enough to make your point visible and threatening and, as jbirch points out, if done correctly you'd be hard pressed not to react to it.

[Victor]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

In epee, pretty much everything goes, but feinting to the mask is absurd. ...

Oh, it is not "absurd" if the fencer knows what the heck he's doing. Like anything else in our quirky sport, it requires a level of tactical and technical skill to carry off correctly -- timing, distance, pretesting your opponent's reactions, etc. I've used it myself to prompt a flinch reaction for a fleche (or fleche-like) attack, or just to keep the guy off balance between other preps.

To dismiss it as "absurd" is ... well, that's absurd.

[Mr Epee]

Alain, Victor... Come on guys....


Why don't you try one of your "mask feints" against someone like Sven Schmid and see how weak his knees get.

Anyone worth their mustard isn't going to panic just because you point your sword at their head. (A target that I will once again like to point out has a very low probability of success)

To the issue of tactical and technical skill that Victor brings up... I once saw a French Canadian Epeeist successfully flick his opponent in the top of the mask repeatedly, and spend the rest of the time dancing around way out of distance. I'm guessing there was some bad blood in the mix.

Was it an example of normal reasonable epee fencing? Not really.

Did it work? Yes

[keith]

Mr epee you may want to read jBirch's sig

[Victor]

Just because someone here doesn't the have the skill or finesse to make a particular action work doesn't mean that it must dismissed for everyone else.

I used to feel the same way about toe touches, too. And yet ... yet ... Darned if I haven't seen a lot of fencers somehow profit from that entirely unreasonable fencing manuever. I mean, sheesh! - Have you considered the arc an epee tip follows as it travels from the upper line to the floor?! And any fencer worth his mustard isn't going to scurry out of the way when he can just as easily reach out and - boink! - tag the downward-moving opponent on the arm. Toe Touches Don't Make Sense to ME, therefore they are absurd.

Top Secret Tip to new fencers: No single action is going to work every time against every fencer, which also means that some actions will work only against some fencers some of the time. That applies to beats vs. presses as well.

[Epee Scherma]

OK, here is another question related to this whole beat/press thread to you epeeists:
When your blade is pressed, or being taken, or controlled in anyway, what action do you prefer to take? One that fights this force, or are you passive and wait to make a ceding parry... or something else? I'm talking in very general terms, because I know this question, like most questions similar to this thread depend on the situation/opponent. So IN GENERAL... what do you prefer to do to opponent X who is attempting to control or take your blade with a press or something.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by Epee Scherma

OK, here is another question related to this whole beat/press thread to you epeeists:
When your blade is pressed, or being taken, or controlled in anyway, what action do you prefer to take? One that fights this force, or are you passive and wait to make a ceding parry... or something else? I'm talking in very general terms, because I know this question, like most questions similar to this thread depend on the situation/opponent. So IN GENERAL... what do you prefer to do to opponent X who is attempting to control or take your blade with a press or something.

I usually draw back my blade so it's hard to beat, keep distance, then counterattack.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I usually draw back my blade so it's hard to beat, keep distance, then counterattack.

Against people like you I fake a beat and then hit you in the knee when you withdraw your hand

[chiz]

Originally Posted by Epee Scherma

OK, here is another question related to this whole beat/press thread to you epeeists:
When your blade is pressed, or being taken, or controlled in anyway, what action do you prefer to take? One that fights this force, or are you passive and wait to make a ceding parry... or something else? I'm talking in very general terms, because I know this question, like most questions similar to this thread depend on the situation/opponent. So IN GENERAL... what do you prefer to do to opponent X who is attempting to control or take your blade with a press or something.

Keep a soft hand, keep your point on target, watch your distance from their shoulder. Slip the hard beat or presses and attack to the open target if it is in distance – do not faint. The target is open if they beat or press, distance is prime here so watch the shoulder, your point control has to be on the spot.

Chiz

[Alain]

Originally Posted by Epee Scherma

OK, here is another question related to this whole beat/press thread to you epeeists:
When your blade is pressed, or being taken, or controlled in anyway, what action do you prefer to take? One that fights this force, or are you passive and wait to make a ceding parry... or something else? I'm talking in very general terms, because I know this question, like most questions similar to this thread depend on the situation/opponent. So IN GENERAL... what do you prefer to do to opponent X who is attempting to control or take your blade with a press or something.

As you say, everyone will differ in their own little way on this one. It's also worth bearing in mind that sometimes (moreso in épée, I'd guess), you can invite someone to take your blade as a way of setting up the point. I very rarely try to force back an action; I prefer to use their move against them by slipping off the point. One of my fave's, for when someone flêches at me (in sixte), is to come off the blade at the last moment into prime.