How to Improve Beginners?

[Alain]

Hi,

Our club has grown a lot over the last couple of years, partly from attracting new experienced fencers, but mostly from having run beginners courses. The courses are more or less down to an art, having improved each time, and from a typical bunch of 20-ish beginners we get >60% going on to join as full members...

So, we have a large number of people with less than 2 years experience, and the question has been raised about how to help them improve... any suggestions, please?!

Thanks

[keith]

by the sounds of it you don't really need to do anything - keeping that many beginners suggests you are doing fine already.

some general ideas;
Make sure that the ambitious beginners get the oppertunity to fence better opponents and get access to the good coaches (which is down to the attitude of your more experienced fencers and coaches).
Ensure enough space so the folk just doing it for fun can fence and not feel like they are getting in the way.
Also things like club competitions (with handicaps so every one can fence) or weapon ladders/leagues.

and never forget the importance of post practice libations.

[parrythis]

A 60% join rate is a thing of beauty!

A few suggestions...

1. Encourage the more experienced fencers to invite the beginner graduates to fence. Advise the experienced fencers to engage the new members in a way that will challenge them, but not embarass them.

2. Schedule an occasional "mini-tournament" so the new members can test their skills.

3. Once in a while, schedule an "advanced techniques" class. Invite the new members. Give them a couple of new things for them to use on the piste.

4. Schedule social events and invite everyone in the club. It promotes a sense of unity. People are more likely to stick around if there is more to the experience than sweating and getting poked with steel.

[epee1]

Originally Posted by keith

by the sounds of it you don't really need to do anything - keeping that many beginners suggests you are doing fine already.

some general ideas;
Make sure that the ambitious beginners get the oppertunity to fence better opponents and get access to the good coaches (which is down to the attitude of your more experienced fencers and coaches).
Ensure enough space so the folk just doing it for fun can fence and not feel like they are getting in the way.
Also things like club competitions (with handicaps so every one can fence) or weapon ladders/leagues.

and never forget the importance of post practice libations.

Have you considered running intermediate classes that concentrate on footwork and conditioning? Our club runs 20-30 minutes of footwork drills before lessons and free fencing so everyone participates. You die but your speed and conditioning improve drastically.

[RebelFencer]

Encourage everyone to go to as many competitions as possible, it does wonders.

[Alain]

Thanks for your replies so far, it seems we're pretty much on track

We're looking to increase our number of club nights to three (M, W, Th), which will give more flexibility to members as well as more time to fence and have lessons. In terms of space, we have room for lessons, and then 7-8 boxes out regularly for fencing.

A lot of the experienced fencers give advice to the less-experienced people. One thing we could introduce, perhaps, is like a buddy system. I'm not sure how it'd work, though... what do you people think??

We're definately looking to introduce a footwork session at the beginning of one our evenings. If your club does this, how does it work?

I introduced monthly club competition nights starting back in October, and although it needs a slight adjustment, we have a handicap system in place that works pretty well. We do one huge poule unique - fence as many people as you can - and one victory equals one point. So, the competition runs over 10 months and the two people - 1 adult, 1 junior - with most points overall win a nice trophy

The "advanced" class is a good idea. For our last classes we - well, "I", as I coach the beginners - introduced a 5 week course after their beginner course had finished. We did épée (it's primarily an épée club) and it seems to have worked well, as it not only increases the likelihood of them joining the club, but once they do they look a little less out of their depth. So, one idea I have is to hold regular group lessons for ex-beginners, once we have our third evening, in addition to the footwork session.

And we really need to get people competing more outside of the club. And ideas how?

Lastly, any suggestions on how to get people out after the club for a well-earned pint... what socials do you have at your club?

Thanks again for your help everyone

[keith]

Originally Posted by Alain

A lot of the experienced fencers give advice to the less-experienced people. One thing we could introduce, perhaps, is like a buddy system. I'm not sure how it'd work, though... what do you people think??

well if your top coach has more prospective students than time you can limit those eligible to recieve lessons to those who help out the beginners - running footwork drills, doing some individual coaching etc, nothing to demanding but enough to help. You can end up with a little coaching pyramid so everyone is getting some one-on-one coaching.

Originally Posted by Alain

We're definately looking to introduce a footwork session at the beginning of one our evenings. If your club does this, how does it work?

have it run in the first 20-30 minutes of the evening, arrange amoungst a couple of people so that there is always someone to run it on time. Having a different person do it on occasion also helps with the variety.

Originally Posted by Alain

And we really need to get people competing more outside of the club. And ideas how?

Offer club awards to the fencers at the end of the season. So someone who manages to win two DE fights all year can win best new fencer . Also getting groups of people to go can make a big difference, stops people feeling left out and swamped by the experience. Maybe just pick a couple of comps and turn them into club outings? Team matches against other local clubs can also work since it is easier to try and match skill levels.

Originally Posted by Alain

Lastly, any suggestions on how to get people out after the club for a well-earned pint... what socials do you have at your club?

Well in the past peer pressure has always seemed to work. If you wander around telling each and every person that everyone else is going - it'll work.

oh and ceilidhs, nothing like a good ceilidh

[RebelFencer]

I'd say one of the best ways to get them out to a competition is for you to go and compete as well (time permitting). But the final decision is the student and whether or not they want to push themselves competitively.

Ninja Edit:: You could also make advanced lessons available only to actively competitive students.

[LUDICROUS]

And we really need to get people competing more outside of the club. And ideas how?

Tell them they HAVE to. No buts. It helps if the person saying it is a serious/don't take crap from anyone kind of person. Tell them it will be fun, and they won't improve if they don't fence better people.

[epee1]

At our club once we finish a beginner class there's always a little tournament on the final night. The beginners are usually taken under a "vet's" wing and brought into the fold.

When there's a tournament, either Jr or sir, we travel in packs. There are usually at least 3 or more fencers with a cheering section of about 10. Most of us go to the tournaments just to show our support for team mates. Each fencer has a mentor (for lack of better word) in case the coach is hijacked into directing and can't help out. We stay until the last fencer is done and then leave in a pack. (Kind of like rabid dogs.)

As for socializing - in the spring and summer cookouts are held about once a month, usually after the tournaments. We really lay on the spread and have adult beverages available to those who qualify. It's a blast, after the 2nd or 3rd one, they usually are opened up to the rest of the tournament (or only to those folks we like to party with.) We have a very social club.

[Larrison]

Here's a couple of things I've seen in local clubs -- some are repetitive to other suggestions on the board

Award "Club Medals" or Awards
One local club gives "points" to members for attending competitions, more if they place (I believe its prorated on how many points they score), points for attending/ placement in club tournaments, etc.

Annual Club Recognition
Same club as above has a big annual awards dinner with the families and girlfriends/ boyfriends, etc invited of all the members -- usually in a ballroom at a local hotel or public building and honor just about everyone, with "best new fencer", "best competitor" etc. Just about everyone gets recognized, and its pretty cool having them get up in front of their family and friends to be recognized

Inter-club tournaments
One salle I work out at about every 2-3 months has an unoffical tournament against another local or university club. It's a serious tournament (lots of hard fencing), but its social too in that there's either a barbeque afterwards, or else there's a publicized after-tournament get-together at a local bar/ restaurant.

Fencing Ladder
Club I know has an internal ladder for each of the three weapons. This is like a tennis ladder used at tennis clubs: you can challenge folks above on the ladder and depending upon how you do, you can move up or down the ladder. Missing a challenge moves you down the ladder, but you have 10 days to respond to the challenge so its not immediate response. We'll see how it goes.

Club "Socials"
I've been to a variety of fencing-related social events over the years, including the infamous "Grand Wazzo" fencing parties up in Hollywood that used to be held. These are usually something like a beach picnic/ outing or a barbeque in a local park -- but everyone brings their dry fencing gear and you fence either pickup bouts or a semi-organized tournament at the social. (You don' t have to participate, so if you want to lay out and work on your tan, you don't have to fence. -- but just about everybody did, inluding girlfriends, parents and etc)
I would suggest some semi-adult supervision at these though... Since I've done some semi-stupid things at them, such as "beam fencing" (fencing on a narrow sand retaining wall on the beach -- about 20 cm wide, and maybe 70 cm off the surface of the beach -- fortunately it was surrounded by soft sand), or mock schlager (saber fencing at bell guard to bell guard range, with a schooner of beer behind each other's back foot, attempting to pop balloons on the opponents mask at each cheek and forehead), or grand melees (teams of up to 30 saberists on each side, attacking the other team, attempting to pop balloons on the other's mask, arm or chest).
These also sometimes turn into unexpected promotional events -- I recall one "Sunday afternoon barbeque and fencing in the park" event, where we ended up with a couple of score onlookers who wanted to participate, and we handed out a bunch of cards and fliers to the club.

Club Newsletter/ Web Page/ Email list
One of the easiest things to do is just set up and issue a club newsletter -- including schedules of upcoming tournaments, classes, demos, etc. This can be done as a web page, emailing to a mailing list, handout at the club, or postal mailing. If you have someone with a digital camera, get pictures! Everyone likes to see their picture, even if its just at a practice -- and this way everyone knows what events are coming up, including tournaments, socials and club competitions.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

one word: inspire


you need to inspire people to achieve. Put some fire in their hearts.

[Boo Boo]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

one word: inspire

you need to inspire people to achieve. Put some fire in their hearts.

I haven't been there, but judging by the fencers who train at Alain's club, am sure it is inspirational - some pretty fantastic epee fencers there...

Alain - I know it is quite some time in the future - but how about making an extra special effort to encourage your less experienced club mates to either compete in or at least go along to the Slough Open? It's only just down the road from you and I always think that big competitions have a "buzz" of excitment about them that makes them addictive... even just going (and not competing there) is likely to spur quite a few of your more enthusiatic novices on to become more advanced fencers and do competitions...

Boo