PCC's

[d8m2k]

EDEW,

I've made my complaints, nothing was done.

I could do more, but its not worth it to me. If I felt it was important, I would be working to change things. If I thought it was important for me to attend, I would, despite the cost, and crappy venues.

The fact of the matter is, I don't care enough about it to do anything more than I am doing now. You can try to convince me I should all you want. But I don't and I won't until something about the tournament changes.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by edew:
1999 was in Las Vegas, and aside from the power problem (the Venetian hotel people didn't know how to dim one room's lights without dimming the other's) and the static electricity, it was a great tournament.

Yep, I had a great time there. And I DO remember the lights dimmming while we were warming up for sabre. What sucked was I fenced better when the lights were down!

The drive from L.A. was boooooooring, though. **Didn't I pass that same cactus 20 miles ago?**

Of course, leaving to drive back to LA at 5:30 om on a Sunday was a MAJOR mistake. Didn't arrive until 10 hours later.

I've been to three PCCs so far, and the only complaint I had was last year when there wasn't quite enough room between some of the strips and the curtains dividing us from the craft fair...I hit Peter Bouchard on the hand during team foil 'cause he couldn't back away from my poor blade control.

Sorry, Peter


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Sam Signorelli -- Boldly going forward...'cause I can't find reverse!

[This message has been edited by Purple Fencer (edited 04-18-2001).]

[Cutter]

Well, I can only comment on the 2000 PCC's as that is the only one I have attended. First, as to the flooring, yes, under the strips was padded but the rest of the venue where we spent most of the time standing and walking was uneven asphalt. Really bad on the back, legs and knees.

My only other complaint is one that has been long standing in most tournaments...referrees. Specifically, women's saber tends to get the bottom of the barrell on referrees. The one's at PCC's - most of them were well versed in epee or foil, but had no clue on saber. One in particular was rather interesting as he would side for the fencer's who's fans yelled the loudest at each touch. Another was a "coin tosser" in that he had no consistancy in his calls at all...he was an epee fencer and referee.

I would just like to see referees on the strip that at least know the concept of saber.

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Cutter
"It's just a flesh wound."

[d8m2k]

Originally posted by Cutter:
Well, I can only comment on the 2000 PCC's as that is the only one I have attended. First, as to the flooring, yes, under the strips was padded but the rest of the venue where we spent most of the time standing and walking was uneven asphalt. Really bad on the back, legs and knees.

The small bit of foam that was used was insufficient cushioning. The asphalt was uneven, and it was noticable. In 1998 when we were in the tent as well, they had some rubber interlocking pieces under the strips. Those were not much better. They moved, were completely uneven and treacherous.

[veeco]

I have to admit that fencing in a tent for such a big event, in the middle of a fair, was not that much exciting to me.

Fencing is not baseball (thank God). I'd rather fence in a closed gym/area, even if it's smaller than in a tent in the middle of a fair. The smell of cows and fried food made me feel kind of nauseous. And the floor really sucked.

[d8m2k]

I also disliked how people who were waiting for the rodeo to start would walk in and start asking questions. There I am waiting for my next bout and people are asking what exactly are we doing, and do I wear a cup to protect myself.

Spectators are welcome, but people looking at fencing like a carnival sideshow is not a good thing.

[Purple Fencer]

Hmmm...must be a different way of looking at things, but I rather LIKED civvies seeing what we do for fun. I don't WANT to be a sport perpetually stuck in some deep dank corner of the world. My first PCC (At Sac) in 1998 was the event that made me push for the Battle of Burbank, which is held inside a large Burbank shipping mall.

Yes, the uninitiated are going to ask you questions about the sport. This is a bad thing? I agree that sometimes they do it when you're obviously busy (had one old gentleman ask me what the lights were for when I was directing a bout at the Burbank event this year -- I mean, the action was actually happening! I held up a hand to him, indicating to wait a second. The action finished, I made the call (thank you, Derek Cotton, for the hand signals) and then calmly explained what happened to him. He seemed to realize that I was busy right after he's spoken up, but ALSO seemed appreciative that I woudl take the time to explain what was going on, and THAT'S why we setup in the mall.

The ONLY way this sport's going to get out of the cellar in the public eye is to BRING it into the public eye. If we don't take some sort of action to let the general public know what we do, we'll be forever the sport that might get a one line mention, despite how many international championships we win.

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Sam Signorelli -- Boldly going forward...'cause I can't find reverse!

[d8m2k]

Fencing is a sport, not as a carnival sideshow. It should be presented as a sport. Holding tournaments in a tent at a state fair is not the message that fencing should be sending.

While the Rochester WC is in a mall, I am still not a fan of that type of venue. Unless of course ample effort is made to keep spectators away from the competitors, and a spokesperson is available.

Otherwise you are not presenting a sport, just some weird show for people to look at and walk away whenever they feel like. That's not very helpful for the growth of fencing as a sport.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by d8m2k:
Fencing is a sport, not as a carnival sideshow. It should be presented as a sport. Holding tournaments in a tent at a state fair is not the message that fencing should be sending.

And forcing people to seek us out in a high school gym where no one outside the sport is exposed to it serves the sport as a whole? EVERY sporting activity that is "new" to a locality is going to be a "carnival sideshow" at first. American football was teh same way in other countries when it first started being played at a large level.


I'm sorry, but the contention that the Sac location made us look like wierdos does not wash. Sure, in ANY group of spectators there will be those who dismiss it as imcomprehensible fluff; we've ALL experienced that first hand, I'm sure. But it sounds like you're presenting fencing as an eletist sport, soomehow not good enough for mere mortals to comprehend. That's the kind of image the sport does NOT need; it's the one we've had for decades. What it DOES need is exposure to the public by whatever means, even if that's at a state fair. I saw more civilian spectators at the 1998 event than at entire SoCal season...and we run tournaments damn near every weekend out here! This was not a bad thing.

I've continually heard complaints that we never get any kind of event coverage of fencing. Well gee whiz...how are you gonig to encourage media coverage if you don't make the event available in the first place? My reasoning behind the mall tourney was not to make people search us out. I wanted them to hear the clash of steel and run into us as they were going thorugh the mall...and we were right in front of the main anchor store. We got a LOT of spectators during the day. We may not have recruited anyone into any club, but that was not the point. Exposure was, and all the participants appreciated the chance to show off our particular passion in public, fromthe lowest placed "U" to the "A" who won the event (Jamie Douraghy).

We probably won't ever agree on this issue, but if an effort isn't made to made the sport accessable, don't ***** when we get short shrift in the media during Olympic time. Familiarity breed acceptance...the NBA learned that years back.


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Sam Signorelli -- Boldly going forward...'cause I can't find reverse!

[d8m2k]

In the age we live in with all the media outlets available, getting our sport seen is not a problem. I don't advocate an elitist sport, however, putting fencing in a tent next to a barn is not image suitable for modern sports.

Spectators are great, but there are other ways to encourage that. First, people want to watch the best of the best, in any sport. Fencing is no different. Second, tournaments, as they are currently run, are indecipherable, even to some competitors.

Fencing needs to be media friendly, I agree, but this is no longer the 30's when basketball players played in barns to get their sport seen.

We agree that attention is good, just what kind of attention you are getting is where we disagree.

[edew]

PCCs ran very well this year. Hats off to
Richard King and his crew. We finished early
all three days on 14 strips. The strips were a bit close together, but not as bad as at the Jr PCCs. I think a full-sized basketball court is better than a middle-school sized court. Anyway, here are the results as best as I can recall:

Men's Epee:
1. Michael Gabriel, GGFC
2. Michael Botenhagen, TFC
3. Eric Hansen, GGFC
4. Jim (Jeff?) Martin, LFF

Women's Foil:
1. Joy Koblosh, Gascon
2. Laura Horton, Gason
3. Karen Ladenheim, HFC
4. Doris Willette, SPFA

Women's Sabre:
1. Jeanette Strumillo, SacFC
2. ???
3. ???
4. ???

Men's Foil:
1. Sean McClain, Rochester FC
2. Dmitri Kirk-Gordon, CFA
3. Kevin Urbain, Stanford
4. Al Carter, Swordplay

Men's Sabre:
1. Alexander Krul, Falcon
2. Ilan Chernov, Falcon
3. Keith Early?, Stanford
4. James Williams?, SacFC (they may be switched)

Women's Epee:
1. Janel Obenchain, GGFC
2. Schnaffer?, GGFC
3. Chelsea Ambort, NWFC
4. ???

Men's Epee Team:
1. Golden Gate Fencing Center
2. Lucchetti Fencing Foundation
3. TZCKA

Women's Sabre Team:
1. Sacramento Fencing Club
2. Halberstadt Fencers Club
3. Stanford Fencing Club

Women's Foil:
1. Halberstadt Fencers Club (for the n-th year in the row!)
2. Gascon
3. Swordplay Fencing Academy

Men's Sabre:
1. Falcon Fencing Studio
2. Sacramento Fencing Club
3. Stanford Fencing Club

Women's Epee:
1. Golden Gate Fencing Center?
2. No Fear? Halberstadt?
3. CFA? who knows...

Men's Foil:
1. Stanford Fencing Club
2. Lucchetti Fencing Foundation
3. Golden Gate Fencing Center

Some pretty good fencing all around. The men's epee showed some really strong fencing from some people not expected to do well. The women's foil was pretty much dominated by Joy this year, although Chloe Stinetorf could have be a strong contender except she loss to Doris Willette, our Y12 dynamo.

In the men's foil team, we beat Swordplay (the team from SoCal), but with many disputable calls. The referee, unfortunately, was pulling calls out of his *** . Fortunately, mostly for us as opposed to Swordplay. We then had a tough time at the start against Golden Gate. Eric Hansen fenced foil for Golden Gate. He wasn't put in as anchor, which may have been a mistake. GGFC was ahead of us for basically the first four bouts, although Kevin Urbain pulled back from a 10-3 deficit to 13-15. We pulled away in the last five. It's very important to know how to situate your fencers so that you make your better fencers take on their weaker fencers later on in the rounds.

For the gold, we were behind for most of the bouts, with us ahead 25-23 for one moment. Yours truly came in with a 40-36 deficit and made it up winning 45-43. Whoo-hoo. They should have put Nat Burke as their anchor because he had tremendous distance and disengage. He befuddled all of us.

[Purple Fencer]

Eric,

Thanks for the partial report. I was wondering...

Was the SwordPlay match the first round? Or did they beat someone else first? I've gotta rag the guys when they get back, as I've been killed by you before, and they hadn't

Do you happen to remember what group the Women's foil was? Laura Horton's been trying to get that B back for a coupl'a years now.


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Sam Signorelli -- Boldly going forward...'cause I can't find reverse!

[Cutter]

I can help you out on women's saber results:

1. Jeanette Strumillo - Sac Fencing Club
2. ? Kuhn
3. ? Egen
4. ? Taft
5. Heidi Runyan
6. Me - Sac Fencing Club
7. Stephanie Paige - Sac Fencing Club
8. I don't recall - she did not stay to get her medal.

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Cutter
"It's just a flesh wound."

[This message has been edited by Cutter (edited 05-07-2001).]

[edew]

That's right. Sandra Kuhn from Gascon (coached by Jr.), Egan is also from SoCal area.

Where were the big girls from Sacramento, like Eiremo, Macarow, and Smith? How come they didn't fence?

As for Sam's question, Swordplay beat Chico Creek II in the first round, then faced us.

Both teams were badly screwed by the referee on very badly made calls. Parry ripostes were called beat attacks, attack-counter-attacks were called attack, counter-attack, remise. I guess since I didn't actually see the lights, it may actually occurred as such, but the feel on my body didn't feel like an attack-remise -- so I tried to give my opponent a free touch for the bad call, but he couldn't hit me without a real remise: I walked up to him, trying to let him hit me, and he missed his attack and had to remise. Alphonse was not too happy with the refereeing and I was sympathetic to him about the bad calls. Didn't help his students any to have attacks not called right, in either direction.

[edew]

Oh, the women's foil is a Group B1 event. It won't be a Group A1 until some A's actually compete in it, and that won't be for some time.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by edew:
As for Sam's question, Swordplay beat Chico Creek II in the first round, then faced us.

Both teams were badly screwed by the referee on very badly made calls. Parry ripostes were called beat attacks, attack-counter-attacks were called attack, counter-attack, remise. I guess since I didn't actually see the lights, it may actually occurred as such, but the feel on my body didn't feel like an attack-remise -- so I tried to give my opponent a free touch for the bad call, but he couldn't hit me without a real remise: I walked up to him, trying to let him hit me, and he missed his attack and had to remise. Alphonse was not too happy with the refereeing and I was sympathetic to him about the bad calls. Didn't help his students any to have attacks not called right, in either direction.

Hmmm...Swordplay keeps getting the same teams in the first round. I think this is the third year we had Chico. 1998 they beat us. 1999 we didn't have them. 2000 we had them - and beat them - in both foil & sabre. Hell, we had Spartak three years in a row for sabre! The first two times we lost by a combined score of 90 to MAYBE 15. Last year we only lost 45-36. Scared Dimitri Guy into actually getting dressed and wiping the floor with me. He he he.

Sorry my guy couldn't land on you. Appreciate the attempted make up. I'm certain Al recognized what you were doing. Did you meet him in the foil, BTW? Also, was THAT one a Group A8? If so, Al's got his A back (big surprise that is)

For Cutter -- 4th in women's sabre was most likely Leslie Taft from the San Bernardino Div.

Sorry I missed it. All things considered, I'd rather have gone. Between getting in a minor car wreck with my car and some little &^%@$ puncturing three of the tires on my wife's car Saturday night, I would've rather driven up and fenced!

Sigh

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Sam Signorelli -- Boldly going forward...'cause I can't find reverse!

[edew]

I met Al in the round of 16! He won, 15-12. I was pissed, as I loss a bout in my pool which I should have won. If I did, I might have been seeded #1. I went 5-0, 5-0, 5-0, 5-2, 5-1, and the one loss in my pool.

[Cutter]

Edew, The big guns, had tests that day, i.e. Eiremo, Macarow, and Dunn. But Eiremo did fence team on Saturday along with Paige and our new kid on the block, Anika Davis. I was supposed to do team also but gave up my spot to Paige.

Eiremo did some good work at Reno - she took out Zagunis in the pools but then lost horribly to her in DE.

Chaz Smith is pretty much retired now and is only really fencing for fun these days.

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Cutter
"It's just a flesh wound."

[This message has been edited by Cutter (edited 05-07-2001).]

[Purple Fencer]

Originally posted by edew:
I met Al in the round of 16! He won, 15-12. I was pissed, as I loss a bout in my pool which I should have won. If I did, I might have been seeded #1. I went 5-0, 5-0, 5-0, 5-2, 5-1, and the one loss in my pool.

YAY, Al!

Oops. Sorry Eric

Nice indicators! Did those three guys want lox & cream cheese with their bagels?I know what you mean about losing a bout you should'a won. Whenever it happens to me, it's always the ONE person in the DE tree blocking my way to higher brackets with guys I can at least have a chance against. *sigh*

See ya Summer Nats (Div III sabre/foil).


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Sam Signorelli -- Boldly going forward...'cause I can't find reverse!

[Peach]

Originally posted by Cutter:
Eiremo did some good work at Reno - she took out Zagunis in the pools but then lost horribly to her in DE.

Zagunis is a very smart fencer with a very long memory. I've come close to beating her once, in Greenville (4-5) and she has not allowed me more than 2 touches since.