Rene's Next Move

[achilleus]

From the FIE mag, his objectives for the next 4 years:

REFEREEING COMMITTEE
“Refereeing must be modified in order to make
it more global. In other words, refereeing must
be the same no matter what country the
competition is being held in. First of all we need
to standardise the refereeing exam, and to
achieve this, the examiner must use video. They
must select the action to be visualised and put
the candidate in real conditions. It is a serious
test that must be taken individually and it will
not be taken during championships. This test
will include an oral exam on the rules and will
be taken in front of two refereeing committee
members.
Also, we need to create refereeing seminars
during which issues relating to each weapon
will be discussed. The committee’s duty is also
to assess the application of the rules, particularly
the one about the appointment of referees, so
as to avoid the unfortunate scandals that
we experienced in the past. We must get
a member of the refereeing committee to
supervise each Grand Prix so as to monitor
the performance of every referee. This
will ensure that the choices for the world
championships or the Olympic Games will
be made on the strength of a continuous
monitoring throughout the season. In total,
the refereeing committee will have to supervise
100 to 120 international referees each year.
Moreover, and this is particularly important
to me, having requested it for so many years, the use of video must become a reality so as
to support or invalidate the referee’s decision.
This video use must be accompanied by a joint
study from the equipment committee and the
refereeing committee. Video usage must be
implemented from the very first rounds through
to the finals, because we understand the fact
that fencers want consistent refereeing.”
RULES COMMITTEE
“I am asking the committee to carry out a study
in order to determine whether the current
rules are compatible with the way fencers use
them. It is difficult to apply these rules if the
practice does not correspond with the rules.
This is why we tried to put foil back on track.
Similarly, the rules committee will have to study
the way epee fencers fight, which is often too
static. How can we make it more dynamic ?
Do we have to cancel the double hit ? In sabre,
should we favour the defensive ? The committee
will issue propositions and opinions on
recent changes so that we can remedy potential
errors and correct the anomalies that we find.”
SEMI COMMITTEE
“This committee is becoming more and more
important. I should point out that it must work
in close collaboration with the refereeing
committee towards the implementation of
video to support the referees.
Also, it must carry out a number of tests to
improve certain weapons. For instance, there
have already been studies made on foil. Are
these studies complete? It must also look into
non metallic but conductive pistes. The role
of the SEMI committee is to find a solution so
that the spool in foil and sabre can finally
be eliminated. Let me remind you that this
system attracted a lot of criticism when it was
implemented in sabre, and that it has now been
unanimously adopted.
Finally, regarding the transparent mask, the
SEMI committee must find ways to make it
more economical.”
MEDICAL COMMITTEE
“First and foremost it must strictly comply with
the recommendations of the World Anti-doping
Agency. It must also try and accurately evaluate
the fencer’s necessary recovery time between
each match.”
PROMOTIONS COMMITTEE
“It has to come up with a reason why a sport
that can be so successful in the Olympic Games
and, more generally, whenever there is quality
organisation, can experience so many difficulties
in finding an audience between two
Olympic Games, hence in finding sponsors.
Is it the fact that we do not charge for public
admission ? Is it because our sport still isn’t
totally understandable? Is it because organisers
do not make enough of an effort in the various
media to attract the public ? The promotions
committee must also ask themselves why each
year following the Olympic Games a lot of
youngsters come to fencing but leave the
next year. Are the competitions dedicated to
the younger fencers, as we know them, the best
way to keep these youngsters in our sport ?
Are they sufficiently well organised ? We need
answers.”
LEGAL COMMITTEE
“Its role is to look into the issue of the discipline
committee. Should it be maintained? Should it
be amended? Can we get inspiration from the
discipline committees of other sports? Should it
be replaced with an ethics committee? My idea
to create a committee for the monitoring of
applications to the Executive Committee and to
the presidency is part of this general idea.”
Interview by JEAN-MARIE SAFRA

The rules committee comments scare me.

[Elemental]

Originally Posted by achilleus

The rules committee comments scare me.

Cancelling the double touch??

I don't see how that would make Epee less static.

Plus think of the reaction from all of the Epee fencers who complain about ROW in foil and saber.

[keith]

Originally Posted by achilleus

The rules committee comments scare me.

bullwhips to motivate epeeists?

shields to help the sabre defense?

Clingfilm to reduce the cost of the vision mask?

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by keith

Clingfilm to reduce the cost of the vision mask?

I should've added that the SEMI commission part also scares me.

No mention of proving the safety of the masks...
Only to make them more economical.

Nice to see he has our health in mind.

[keith]

Originally Posted by achilleus

I should've added that the SEMI commission part also scares me.

No mention of proving the safety of the masks...
Only to make them more economical.

Nice to see he has our health in mind.

hey a bit of blood and gore would do wonders for the viewing figures.

Perhaps a gladatorial salute to Rene before each bout?

[shango]

Or just challenge him to a deal and beat his ***.

[KD5MDK]

AFAIK he considers the safety of the masks proven. Why should he worry about further proof? Now, if lots of national commitees complain, that's a different matter.

What do people think of the refereeing comments?

[keith]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

What do people think of the refereeing comments?

Well if they manage to standardise the refing between countries it will be a miracle - of the good sort.

The video refs will be a bloody joke, maybe they could run it like american football. So you can appeal but if it goes against you you lose a point? It will also allow time for the pom-pom girls (sorry).

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

AFAIK he considers the safety of the masks proven. Why should he worry about further proof? Now, if lots of national commitees complain, that's a different matter.

What do people think of the refereeing comments?

Well, I don't think the SEMI completely agrees with him on the safety of the masks. Especially when they can't really test them.

As for the reffing, consistent reffing should have been the primary goal since the inception of the FIE. Video replay, eh, I've never been a big fan in any sport.

I would just be happy with consistent interpretation and application of the rules.

[Purple Fencer]

"SEMI COMMITTEE
“This committee is becoming more and more
important. I should point out that it must work
in close collaboration with the refereeing
committee towards the implementation of
video to support the referees.
Also, it must carry out a number of tests to
improve certain weapons. For instance, there
have already been studies made on foil. Are
these studies complete? It must also look into
non metallic but conductive pistes. The role
of the SEMI committee is to find a solution so
that the spool in foil and sabre can finally
be eliminated. Let me remind you that this
system attracted a lot of criticism when it was
implemented in sabre, and that it has now been
unanimously adopted.
Finally, regarding the transparent mask, the
SEMI committee must find ways to make it
more economical.”
MEDICAL COMMITTEE
“First and foremost it must strictly comply with
the recommendations of the World Anti-doping
Agency. It must also try and accurately evaluate
the fencer’s necessary recovery time between
each match.”

Hey Rene....how about listening to the SEMI and medical commissions where the lexan masks are concerned....you know....if the commissions are so vital and everything...

Can you smeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllll the hipocracy??

[UTEpee]

great post! its nice to know where the "leaders" would like to take the sport, although i must agree that some of the rule changes may be a bit over the top (no doubles in epee?!?!?!) It will be interesting to see what comes of all this

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by UTEpee

great post! its nice to know where the "leaders" would like to take the sport, although i must agree that some of the rule changes may be a bit over the top (no doubles in epee?!?!?!) It will be interesting to see what comes of all this

You know, that one doesn't faze me really. I remember reading Nadi's bio and he mentions that they often fenced epee that way, and that any epee fencer worth a damn prefers it that way. Then again, they also called epee the fluking iron.

Really though, I'm not sure it would make the game more dynamic. There is a good chance it would just make people more patient.

I've fenced practice bouts like this, and it definitely changes the game. If you're losing it makes you work. If you're winning, it makes you lazy.

Well, we'll have to see what happens...

[foilz]

Originally Posted by Renee's Next Move

Moreover, and this is particularly important to me, having requested it for so many years, the use of video must become a reality so as to support or invalidate the referee’s decision. This video use must be accompanied by a joint study from the equipment committee and the refereeing committee. Video usage must be implemented from the very first rounds through to the finals, because we understand the fact that fencers want consistent refereeing.

This is pure IOC.

It's not about fencers, it's literally about the IOC.

IOC needs video feed in all Olympics so that (i) NBC -- without making their own investment -- can extract and examine footage for excrutiating live-and-in-real-time analysis and broadcast; and (ii) Olympic referees can adjudicate actions to a degree beyond human perception (so they can parse marginal calls, reduce the risk of politicized referrees, and not least in today's world, reduce potential lawsuits).

This is the heart of M. Roch's Olympic defensive strategy.

To a certain degree, it's reasonable. M. Rogge, head of the IOC, wants digital documentation and adjudication in every sport -- not just for the convenience of television, but to rebuild honor, truth, and authenticity (which has been hammered over the decades by professionalism, money, cheating, and dope).

Unfortunately, it's a curse that every fencing federation, and every division in every country, will have to address.

Think about the impact of this. Think of yourself as the organizer of a national event. It's huge -- in time, dollars, and logistics. Who pays for it? And what does it do that honest, honorable, well-managed referees shouldn't be doing?

Why not rebuild honor? Isn't honor better than allowing partisan crooks to adjudicate important bouts?

Complex issues.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by foilz

This is pure IOC.

It's not about fencers, it's literally about the IOC.

IOC needs video feed in all Olympics so that (i) NBC -- without making their own investment -- can extract and examine footage for excrutiating live-and-in-real-time analysis and broadcast; and (ii) Olympic referees can adjudicate actions to a degree beyond human perception (so they can parse marginal calls, reduce the risk of politicized referrees, and not least in today's world, reduce potential lawsuits).

This is the heart of M. Roch's Olympic defensive strategy.

To a certain degree, it's reasonable. M. Rogge, head of the IOC, wants digital documentation and adjudication in every sport -- not just for the convenience of television, but to rebuild honor, truth, and authenticity (which has been hammered over the decades by professionalism, money, cheating, and dope).

Unfortunately, it's a curse that every fencing federation, and every division in every country, will have to address.

Think about the impact of this. Think of yourself as the organizer of a national event. It's huge -- in time, dollars, and logistics. Who pays for it? And what does it do that honest, honorable, well-managed referees shouldn't be doing?

Why not rebuild honor? Isn't honor better than allowing partisan crooks to adjudicate important bouts?

Complex issues.

I think there's an even bigger issue. One of interpretation. What you might say is threatening, I might say is prep. Until this is sorted out, video replay will be meaningless. That means rewriting the rules, or at least adding clarification...

[Jarentz]

"Similarly, the rules committee will have to study
the way epee fencers fight, which is often too
static. How can we make it more dynamic ?
Do we have to cancel the double hit ?"

He wants to change epee too?!
HaHaHaHaHaHa ;-)

Desn't he realize if you threw out the double touches in epee, a bout would last like 1-2 hours?....

[rcmatthews]

Should we favor the defensive in sabre?

Please God, no more. If I wanted to play defense, I would fence epee (well, sometimes I do). Let us keep our weapons.

[Stryder]

Double touches in epee will be awarded to the fencer who is losing. In the case of a tied score both fencers will be awarded a touch.
If the final touch is a double touch, a coin will be tossed to decide the winner.
If the 14-14 is reached at any time, the bout will immediately go into it's final minute.

I know it sounds crazy but give it a chance. If double touches only favor the loser, epeeists become more aggressive. If doubles still occur when the score is tied, epee bouts become shorter. If the score is 14-14 epeeists will be desparate to avoid a double and avoid letting time expire so we will get to see some really great epee fencing!

Epee is fun until you reach the big leagues. Then its all about waiting and doubling and long arms. It needs a shake-up.

Sabre needs an enema, too, as does foil. But that's another story.

What fencing needs really is the return of the three weapon championship.
No medals for anything else!

So sayeth Mike!
(Opinions expressed are not those of Fencing.net or it's management.)

[Alan]

Originally Posted by King René

This is why we tried to put foil back on track.

These ugly and boring Foilepee matches : is this putting foil back on track ???

Please let the foilists decide what they want.
No need of being put back on track by using as a pretext the views of honest Romankov nostalgics to impose other changes.

Originally Posted by King René

Similarly, the rules committee will have to study
the way epee fencers fight, which is often too
static. How can we make it more dynamic ?

Is this a joke ???

We have a magnificent and dynamic sport ie Foil which was adored by millions of spectators in Athens.

Broken test timings have changed it into a passive and ugly show ie Foilepee.

Now you complain that Epee is too static ?

So the goal is to make Foil static and Epee dynamic ???

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Alan

So the goal is to make Foil static and Epee dynamic ???

i think "mr. cockroche's" goal is to destroy epee fencing now it looks like. epee is perfect as it is. and he thinks getting rid of doubles will make epee more exciting?? if anything the bouts will last even longer than it is now and most people already think epee is boring.

apparently messing with foil and sabre wasn't enough.

[epee1]

I've read through the post but haven't come across opinions offered by the "elite" fencers. Has anyone who fences at that level ever made their opinion know? Other than the final four thing (and that was more of a protest) there seems to be a lot of silence from the international fencing community. Or did I just miss the hubbub?