How Big is Fencing in your country?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

So what have we learned today boys and girls??? Fencing is not a well-known sport anywhere in the world. Yes, some countries have more fencers than others, but overall it doesn't even register on the average people's radar.

Not only that, fencing generally has a problem of making the news.

I just did a search on "The Portland Tribune", and saw that Mariel Zagunis featured in 21 articles. Most were about a sports award show in which she was one of many finalists, she was mentioned in the headline in only 2 articles. (I chose "Zagunis" as search term because it would yield far fewer irrelevant hits than "fencing".)

A search on the city of Beaverton website yielded NO hits on "Zagunis", "sabre", "Korfanty", "Oregon fencing alliance". "Ward" gave a bunch of hits, all irrelevant. A search for "Olympics" gave 27 hit concerning special Olympics.

A search on the Beaverton Valley times gave 4 hits on "Zagunis". Beaverton is a city with a population of 83,000.

For comparison "Wildcats", the local baseball team, has gotten 67 mentions so far in 2007. As far as I can see, that team is only active in Oregon.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Fencergrl]

Can you blame them???... hang on before everyone gets all indignant. Yes I know fencing is a fantastic sport… but lets forget about our pride and ego for second.

Look at this thread… people from ALL over the world are reporting much the same thing. As far as the general public is concerned, most people don’t know that fencing even exists in their community, much less their country.

Why on earth would fencing even hit the news??? The media wants to talk about what they think people are interested in.

Okay… even the World’s best fencers don’t get noticed by the general media very much… I don’t see much in the news on the world’s best ballroom dancers, the world’s best dart players, or even the world’s best curlers. Can anyone name the person who won the last International triathlon?

Other than a few sports that are popular in a given area, I don't think MOST sports get very much coverage other than at the Olympics, unless there's a scandal going on.

I really don't see why we're getting our knickers in a knot over it. If we want media coverage I think we need to behave more scandalous... do you think we could get Paris Hilton fencing? I know lots of people who would like to whack her with a metre long metal stick...

[the ancient one]

Do you want fencing to get a lot bigger or
do you want to become famous via fencing?
How much bigger do you want fencing to get?

Being under the radar has advantages too.

Besides fencing I also play the Lute.
The what?
The Lute.
Even smaller than fencing.
One interesting aspect is that the lute world is so small that
when a world class player comes to town, the local lute gang can go out to dinner with them and perhaps sit around a living room to play and discuss whatever we want. In short I have access to the highest levels of the field, in spite of my rather low credentials.

As things get more popular and saturated with players and fans this kind of exposure becomes increasingly impossible.

It seems that the FIE does want to popularize fencing and to achieve that they are simplifying and streamlining the game. Perhaps all of fencing will converge to just 1 weapon-something like saber with epee target and no ROW. Like that it just might become mega-huge. We eliminate the need for highly skilled directors and the coaching would be simplified too-no overly refined skills, just speed and good instincts.

But would it be worth it?

Sting put out a Lute CD last year, and while it does not conform to the conventional values of the Early Music community and leaves all of the other
lute players with mixed feelings--it is bound to create a spike of interest in the noble old instrument and another direction in its evolution.

Honestly I don't have a position on how "big" fencing should be, but if it has to get big I wonder how much change you will tolerate to get it?

Opinions?

[Fencergrl]

I agree... there's real advantages to not being very popular. Off the top of my head:

1) Allows fencers to move up to higher levels of fencing much quicker.

2) Access to top level fencers. One of my club mates represented our country in fencing at the Olympics. Kids I coach are fans of some of the top level fencers because we used to host a World Cup event. They became fans because they were able to see them fence and/or approached them (or the fencer said something kind to them).

3) We would all lose that reaction we all get.... "Wow! You fence? That's cool". For some fencers the "differentness" is the reason they started fencing.

4) God! Don't you think some of the fencing egos out there are big enough??? I really don't think some of our fellow fencers could handle this sport being popular.

Yeah, it would be easier to buy gear and it would be cheaper. It would be nice to watch fencing on TV, but I like watching my sports live anyway or watch a DVD...

Plus I don't need to open up the morning paper, to find out that another fencer is behaving like an egomanical arse... I can get involved in fencing politics for that.

[Monash_Armourer]

Think about it for a second, what are the most popular/common sports and what do they all have in common? Soccer, cricket, baseball, basketball hockey, hurling, lacrosse, rugby, aussie rules, gridiron, tennis... what do they have in common?

They're simple, relatively easy to understand and make good spectator sports because of it. You don't need to have participated in these sports to really be able to appreciate whets going on, and more often than not it isn't that difficult to get an informal game together with friends in the park (perhaps not tennis...) requiring not a terrible amount of equipment. It's also incredibly easy to find a bunch of people who support the same team and find a bit more camaraderie (not that fencers are unfriendly, it's just not really a team sport) and a sense of belonging.

Fencing on the other hand isn't anywhere near as approachable as those other sports. Try explaining whets going on to somebody who's come into your salle to try out fencing for the first time during a bout between two evenly matched mid-level foilists and you'll get blank stares or a torrent of questions no matter how well you can explain things, and you'll probably get the same thing the next time they come in as well.

How can you expect the casual sports viewer with no experience in fencing even with the best commentary to know what happened and more importantly why a fencer has been awarded a point after an exchange when most people still don't even get off-side or where silly mid-wicket is? People get turned off if they don't understand enough of what's going on no matter how good it looks.

Try watching Hurling or Aussie Rules. If you've never seen it before without somebody explaining what's going on, it looks all very well and good, but you're far more likely to watch a game of Lawn Bowls to completion simply because you understand entirely what's going on.

The media isn't going to cover fencing as much, because the media doesn't understand fencing. I think relying on the media to noticably increase participation is probably highly ineffective compared to getting coaches out into schools or community centres and inciting passion for fencing in their students.

[theLuz]

Originally Posted by Monash_Armourer

Try watching Hurling or Aussie Rules.

I think he's got a point. I'd rather not watch Hurling. Aussie Rules is pretty cool, though...........

[Monash_Armourer]

Originally Posted by theLuz

I think he's got a point. I'd rather not watch Hurling. Aussie Rules is pretty cool, though...........

The Irish sport which looks something in between baseball, lacrosse, hockey and gaelic football, not drinking games and related hurling...

EDIT: For those who are curious...

"What is Hurling?" video

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by Monash_Armourer

Think about it for a second, what are the most popular/common sports and what do they all have in common? Soccer, cricket, baseball, basketball hockey, hurling, lacrosse, rugby, aussie rules, gridiron, tennis... what do they have in common?

They're simple, relatively easy to understand and make good spectator sports because of it.

I agree... look how many threads there are on this forum regarding rules. Even the people who fence don't understand all the rules involved. A lot of sports, you can pull most parents out of the crowd and ask them officiate for the kids... can you imagine doing that in fencing???

Originally Posted by Monash_Armourer

The media isn't going to cover fencing as much, because the media doesn't understand fencing. I think relying on the media to noticably increase participation is probably highly ineffective compared to getting coaches out into schools or community centres and inciting passion for fencing in their students.

Again, I agree... when I go into the schools and do quick little "introductory to fencing" programs some of the young boys are actually quivering to pick up a blade and fence. The desire for many kids is there, they just don't know that fencing clubs exist in their neighbourhood.

[CheekyCanuck]

As far as why people know the rules to soccer, football, baseball, basketball or hockey is because they've had it shoved down their throats on a daily basis.
Even me, who hates sports... wait that doesn't express how I feel... I HATE SPORTS!!!!! (and if I have to choke down watching another bloody hockey game in my life it will be too soon, sorry for the rant) (isn't it odd that I love fencing?)
Anyway, back to my point...
Even I know the rules to most of the popular sports, but that's because it's in the media, it's on our streets, it's in our neighbourhoods. If you can't remember ask your friend or neighbour.
Popularizing the sport wouldn't necessarily make it better, but it would be nice to be popular enough to not be on the verge of removal from the Olympics. (correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't women's foil already removed?)
So my question is, what have you done to help spread the word about fencing?

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by CheekyCanuck

(correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't women's foil already removed?)

You are wrong, in fact, the FIE (or IOC???) has changed from offering just 1 women's team event (I believe foil) to 2, at the expense of 1 men's team. You may have been confused since I believe it is the women's foil team that will miss out next year (though I could be wrong).

All 6 individual events are in the Olympics, and 4 team events, and which team events should start rotating.

[CheekyCanuck]

Originally Posted by larkmaj

You are wrong, in fact, the FIE (or IOC???) has changed from offering just 1 women's team event (I believe foil) to 2, at the expense of 1 men's team. You may have been confused since I believe it is the women's foil team that will miss out next year (though I could be wrong).

All 6 individual events are in the Olympics, and 4 team events, and which team events should start rotating.

You're right. I just checked Olympic Fencing. But I know I heard that from somewhere, maybe it was another threat, as in "we need to cut back, lets remove the least popular sport."

[wahrman]

I really am pretty happy with the state of fencing. At least in this part
of California. I get to work with Olympic coaches. I get to fence some of the
best fencers in the country and once in a while, top international fencers.

As someone else said, these people are also approachable. Most of them
are pretty friendly, helpful people. I love that.

Hell, I was even invited buy the owner of a large manufacturer to stop by
and have a tour of the factory.

I gave up hockey years ago for several reasons, one of them was a mass
market push they did in the US. Glowing pucks, turquoise sweaters, smoke
machines at games. Sigh.

Many sports (or anything for that matter) loses its appeal when it gets
twisted and turned and changed too much to reach a wider audience.

But that's a discussion that's been to death around here. Sorry.