03-23-2005, 12:06 AM
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#61 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,464
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Originally Posted by Red #40 An interesting side note, if this had happened in Texas this would have been an open and shut case. While govenor of Texas President Bush signed into law something called "the texas futile care law" which permits a hospital to remove life support in ANY case where the patient cannot pay and there is no hope of revival --- REGARDLESS OF THE WISHES OF THE PATIENT'S FAMILY. A 6 month old boy died last week in Texas when - pursuant to this law - the hospital removed his feeding tube over his mother's objections. http://www.newsday.com/news/nationwo...tion-headlines
Gotta love the double standards, but then the this is a Florida case and his brother needs some press time with the Religious Right if he is going to be the next president. | WoW, now that is interesting. This baby case in Texas at least sounded like the little boy still had a chance to live. Here the Great State of Bush unplugged this kid because his family didn't have enough money to pay his hospital bill - yet, Schiavo, whose bills are being paid, is important enough to keep alive. I read in that link that the hospital even offered to pay his legal bill while the family pursued keeping him on life support a little longer!
Quite the double standard! Bah! | 
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03-23-2005, 11:00 AM
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#62 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Holland
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Originally Posted by jeff people who are terminally ill, or in Terri Schiavo's case, brain-dead | Terri Schiavo isn't brain dead. In brain death, even the lowest brain stem function is gone.
I hope this case will be resolved soon...
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03-23-2005, 11:35 AM
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#63 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,070
| dunastor, yes - you're quite right. She's not 'brain dead', she's in a 'persistent vegetative state'. My mistake for using the wrong term.
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03-23-2005, 11:50 AM
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#64 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,464
| Today on my local television station, there was an interview with a family who's daughter was in a situation they called similar to Terri Schaivo's family. They went on about how doctors said she was in a persistent vegetative state, that she couldn't swallow and wouldn't regain normal brain function and that removing life support was recommended.
I'm watching the interview, thinking, oh they are going to show us how Terri's doctors could all be wrong because look at how well their daughter recovered. But I wanted to know, how similar were the medical cases.
The story unfolds and we learn that their daughter was only in a coma/state for 8 weeks, her brain had not turned to liquid in scans, and still now, after 10 years of physical therapy their daughter can be supported (tied into) in a wheel chair (quadrapeligic) and can almost speak, though it is just barely more than a mumble. She can't move on her own, her facial expression is barely blank, there's no light in her drooping eyes. She is fully dependent on everyone for everything. But here she is being shown off as an example and the mother saying that she thinks Terri Schiavo could still recover too! | |
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03-23-2005, 06:45 PM
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#65 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,046
| Hi! Quote: |
Originally Posted by jeff If Frist were still practicing medicine instead of practicing politics, he would never offer an opinion like that in public, as it would be a violation of professional ethics, for the reasons keith lists. | This was my gut reaction also. Anyway: could there be a malpractice case here against Frist, with any chance of holding water?
Have a nice time!
Peter Gustafsson | |
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03-23-2005, 07:17 PM
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#66 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,070
| I don't think so, Peter. He's never treated the patient and nobody referred the patient to him, so I don't think he would be a candidate for a malpractice suit. Though, who knows - the US is so litiginous...
More likely he would be admonished for violating professional standards of ethics by criticizing another doctor (which he did implicitly but he didn't do by name) without examining the patient, or more to the point, giving a diagnosis without examining the patient. None of this will happen, of course.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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03-24-2005, 02:51 PM
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#67 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Mary's Land
Posts: 192
| The latest word from CNN: Supreme Court Won't Hear Schiavo Case
According to the article, there have been 20 court rulings siding with M. Schiavo. The Florida legislature and ol' Jeb Bush, however, aren't done yet... New Motions filed by Fl. Legislature
And their pet neurologist, who hasn't examined T. Schiavo directly, claims the doctors who DID examine her are all wrong.
Also, a logical flaw (maybe?): Roman Catholics believe that if they're good, they will ascend to heaven to be with God when they die. How so is it then, that the Schindlers claim T. Schiavo's religious beliefs stipulate that her life be prolonged as long as possible (or in this case the autonomic functioning of her body)? Wouldn't it make sense to let her cross over into the afterlife to be with her Lord? Or have I missed something beyond "they don't want to let her go?"
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03-24-2005, 04:07 PM
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#68 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,070
| Bokken - you haven't missed anything; you have it figured out. Sadly, this sort of thing happens all the time, though it normally doesn't become a political football.
Interesting data point: heard a guy from the Cato Institute (quite conservative), say that 73% of conservatives are against Bush and the other Republicans having intervened in the Schiavo case. Not everybody has sacrificed their principles about government interference in private life.
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"In theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, theory and practice are different."
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03-24-2005, 04:16 PM
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#69 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,464
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Originally Posted by Bokken The latest word from CNN: Supreme Court Won't Hear Schiavo Case
According to the article, there have been 20 court rulings siding with M. Schiavo. The Florida legislature and ol' Jeb Bush, however, aren't done yet... New Motions filed by Fl. Legislature
And their pet neurologist, who hasn't examined T. Schiavo directly, claims the doctors who DID examine her are all wrong.
Also, a logical flaw (maybe?): Roman Catholics believe that if they're good, they will ascend to heaven to be with God when they die. How so is it then, that the Schindlers claim T. Schiavo's religious beliefs stipulate that her life be prolonged as long as possible (or in this case the autonomic functioning of her body)? Wouldn't it make sense to let her cross over into the afterlife to be with her Lord? Or have I missed something beyond "they don't want to let her go?" | The right religious groups that are supporting Terri Schiavo have twisted and destroyed the teachings of the Catholic Church on the issue to use it for their own benefit and to try to guilt people into thinking otherwise.
What I don't understand is Why Terri Schiavo?
What is it about this particular case that has prompted the tens of millions of dollars that are being provided to the her parents to continue to pursue this? What do they expect to get out of this effort and why HER?
There are hundreds, thousands of patients who have their life support discontinued every day. And I suspect that many to all of them are in a state much closer to reabilitative than where Schiavo is.
Just this week in the state of Texas they pulled life support off a young baby with respiratory difficulties, not because he wasn't rehabilitative, but because Texas law allows hospitals to pull life support when the guardians can't pay the hospital bill! So they let a young baby expire because he can't pay the hospital bill, but they fight for Terri Schiavo because after 15 years the bills are still being paid?
Her loving husband labored over her care for a decade. In despair he finally agreed with the hundreds of doctors, caregivers, and specialists that it was over, that there nothing more anyone could do for her, and he grieved and became ready to accomodate her wishes and let her go. So this is the case the right to lifers want to use as their foundation example for life politics?
What a mess they have made for this family. What a scam that is being perpetrated by the Congress and the Florida Legistlature. What a played fool the Governor of Florida has become. | |
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03-25-2005, 04:53 AM
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#70 | | Guardian
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA
Posts: 1,274
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Originally Posted by L.O.A.S. What they decry is judicial activism. Legislating from the bench. What they are arguing for in this case, is seeing that Terri Schiavo is not unjustly killed by the laws of the state. Isn't that their obligation? In this case, it seems like the federal judge is validating the states decision, so whats wrong with going thru the motions of due process? | Due process has already been followed. YEARS of trials with the same end result.
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03-25-2005, 05:21 AM
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#71 | | Guardian
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA
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Originally Posted by jeff Interesting data point: heard a guy from the Cato Institute (quite conservative), say that 73% of conservatives are against Bush and the other Republicans having intervened in the Schiavo case. Not everybody has sacrificed their principles about government interference in private life. | Some thoughts from a 19th century liberal (not a conservative  )
- How many supporters of the Schindlers are quick to believe left-wing conspiracy theories? In other words, that the game was rigged by covert conflicts of interest and collusion? I think it may point to a basic distrust of the system, due to ignorance and unfamiliarity, coupled with a perverse sense of optimism on the part of those supporters...
- It's interesting that supporters of States Rights can only win by the actual, physical death of a young woman, even though most people agree that, for all intents and purposes, she died years ago. Troubling to say the least...
- How many politicians are actually going with their conscience on this as opposed to gaining political capital? And could both sides be guilty of situational ethics in this argument? As somebody already pointed out(apologies to ... somebody ), the traditional roles have been reversed, Republicons asking for MORE judicial interference, Demoncrats advocating for States rights...
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Quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur
Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other
TANSTAAFL
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03-25-2005, 05:24 AM
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#72 | | Guardian
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA
Posts: 1,274
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Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari Just this week in the state of Texas they pulled life support off a young baby with respiratory difficulties, not because he wasn't rehabilitative, but because Texas law allows hospitals to pull life support when the guardians can't pay the hospital bill! So they let a young baby expire because he can't pay the hospital bill, but they fight for Terri Schiavo because after 15 years the bills are still being paid? | Proving the great Axiom of American Life... Money Talks 
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Quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur
Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other
TANSTAAFL
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03-25-2005, 10:37 AM
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#73 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,464
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Originally Posted by gojujay Proving the great Axiom of American Life... Money Talks | Well ain't it a shame that this poor woman gets to be rolled, prodded and put on display as the poster child of Republican compassion and values because there's a buck in it somewhere.
Last edited by Maeve_Mari; 03-25-2005 at 12:36 PM.
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03-25-2005, 12:24 PM
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#74 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oregon, USA
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Originally Posted by Maeve_Mari Well ain't it a shame that this poor, woman gets to be rolled, prodded and put on display as the poster child of Republican compassion and values because there's a buck in it somewhere. | Yes, it is execrable. Absolutely loathsome, and too symbolic of modern partisan politics in America.
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03-25-2005, 12:28 PM
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#75 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Oregon, USA
Posts: 1,368
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Originally Posted by Inquartata Every once in a while, politicians do something so egregiously hypocritical that not even their usual defenders can stomach it.
Here we see Republican legislators, the usual defenders of states' rights, ginning up a bill to wrest jurisdiction over a state case from the state courts and thrust it into the federal..... | Nice post, Inq. Good thoughts well-expressed.
Brian
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03-27-2005, 06:53 PM
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#76 | | Din Älskling
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somewhere inside your head. Or am I?
Posts: 4,196
| Ahhhhhh, Tom DeLay, my absolute FAVORITE person in the world. A beacon of light in the storm of moral integrity. The "leader" of the Republican party. Forefront in the fight to pass a federal law to save Terry Schiavo...
Here's a quote: Quote: |
Originally Posted by Satan's Spawn "Americans would be so barbaric as to pull a feeding tube out of a person that is lucid and starve them to death for two weeks." | Barbaric...go on... It's so good to hear someone stand up for their convictions for once, instead of pandering to the US "moral minority"... Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hitler's Stepchild "One thing that God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo to elevate the visibility of what's going on in America," the Texan congressman told a meeting of the the Family Research Council. | Yes, this definitely needs more attention...oh wait, hold on there Mr. DeLay... http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1000855929
Hey, guess what!!!!! Mr. DeLay, made the decision to pull the plug on his own father in 1988. Guess it was such a traumatic decision that he has blocked it from his mind... I reeeeaaaallllllly hate that man (Tom DeLay, not his dad)...
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Last edited by esskreemr; 03-27-2005 at 07:18 PM.
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03-27-2005, 08:52 PM
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#77 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 273
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Originally Posted by esskreemr Ahhhhhh, Tom DeLay, my absolute FAVORITE person in the world. A beacon of light in the storm of moral integrity. The "leader" of the Republican party. Forefront in the fight to pass a federal law to save Terry Schiavo...
Here's a quote:
Barbaric...go on... It's so good to hear someone stand up for their convictions for once, instead of pandering to the US "moral minority"...
Yes, this definitely needs more attention...oh wait, hold on there Mr. DeLay... http://www.editorandpublisher.com/ea..._id=1000855929 Quote: |
Originally Posted by Hitler's Stepchild One thing that God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo to elevate the visibility of what's going on in America," the Texan congressman told a meeting of the the Family Research Council. | Hey, guess what!!!!! Mr. DeLay, made the decision to pull the plug on his own father in 1988. Guess it was such a traumatic decision that he has blocked it from his mind... I reeeeaaaallllllly hate that man (Tom DeLay, not his dad)... | Oh and yes, TEXAS is the state that has the law in place - and actively used too - that provides for the plug to be pulled if the patient or family doesn't have enough cold, hard cash to pay the hospital bills. Oh yes, let's "elevate" [sic] what's going on in TEXAS why don't we??
Fools. Pandering Fools! | |
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03-27-2005, 08:59 PM
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#78 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: MA
Posts: 7,459
| I was just thinking in church today, politicians have become completely subservient to the platforms of their parties. We have an issue like this, and rather than making choices, alllllllll the republicans rally to save someone's "life", while all the Democrats, of course, take the opposite stance. Never do they look at the issue, never do they actually form an opinion of their own, rather than that of their party. Of course, there are occaisional individuals (John McCain, for example), who disagree with their party from time to time, but they are unsupported, and often alienated by the other members of their party.
Does it seem like this to anyone else? | |
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03-27-2005, 09:36 PM
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#79 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,091
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Originally Posted by L.O.A.S. Funny should should say this. Would you be jailed for starving your dog? | Funny you should say this. We put our dog to sleep when we discovered she had a terminal blood cancer. | |
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03-27-2005, 10:19 PM
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#80 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
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