Red vs. Blue State - fencing comparisions

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Some time ago, I saw a stats comparison between some red and blue states in various sociological aspects, and the implicit thesis advanced was that the two groups of states were quite different, and the difference between the groups were larger than those within either group.

I just recalled this, and my question is: is there any compiled list of fencing stats broken down to red vs. blue? My guess is that the blue would win quite handily in most fencing stats, but that is just a hunch, I have no solid numbers to back it up.

Thoughts, anectdotes, stats, explanations?


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[telkanuru]

Considering OR, CA, MA, and NY count themselves among the blue states, I say that blue wins...

Fencers from red states are twice as likely to think a shotgun is a sabre.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Considering OR, CA, MA, and NY count themselves among the blue states, I say that blue wins...

Fencers from red states are twice as likely to think a shotgun is a sabre.

Texas is pretty big in fencing.

There's a breakdown by state of number of USFA members on the USFA site. I don't have time now, but I'll find it later.


Apparently, the USFA website is set up so that it doesn't link. But click on "Info For Members", then "Miscellaneous", then "USFA Membership Report"

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Considering OR, CA, MA, and NY count themselves among the blue states, I say that blue wins...

Fencers from red states are twice as likely to think a shotgun is a sabre.

No condescension there, even if it was meant in jest

[Larrison]

Hmmm.. if you look at the county-level breakdown, you see that many "blue" or "red" states actually break more on an urban/ rural area break.

For example, check out the attached graphic, which does the "red/blue" thing, at the county level rather than the state. Look at California..while Kerry carried the state, he did it by capturing the majority of votes in the SF Bay and nearby coastal areas, and LA county. The rest of the state went for Bush.

So.... if you try to put this as a fencing analogy, I think the Blue's would sweep it. The blues won mostly in urban areas -- in suburban and rual areas, the red's did quite a bit better. But fencers are pretty much in urban areas, and best thrive where there is lots of competition and other fencers -- eg, blue areas.

So I'd say that urban fencers will trounce rural/ suburban fencers...

As an additional piece of demographic cartography.. check out http://bigpicture.typepad.com/photos...op_density.jpg
That map is redrawn on a population density basis, and shows more a rural/ urban population basis for the vote\

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by gojujay

No condescension there, even if it was meant in jest

Whatever do you mean?

[gojujay]

Originally Posted by Larrison

Hmmm.. if you look at the county-level breakdown, you see that many "blue" or "red" states actually break more on an urban/ rural area break.

For example, check out the attached graphic, which does the "red/blue" thing, at the county level rather than the state. Look at California..while Kerry carried the state, he did it by capturing the majority of votes in the SF Bay and nearby coastal areas, and LA county. The rest of the state went for Bush.

So.... if you try to put this as a fencing analogy, I think the Blue's would sweep it. The blues won mostly in urban areas -- in suburban and rual areas, the red's did quite a bit better. But fencers are pretty much in urban areas, and best thrive where there is lots of competition and other fencers -- eg, blue areas.

So I'd say that urban fencers will trounce rural/ suburban fencers...

As an additional piece of demographic cartography.. check out http://bigpicture.typepad.com/photos...op_density.jpg
That map is redrawn on a population density basis, and shows more a rural/ urban population basis for the vote\

I wonder which weapons support or have more support for, which candidate? Seems to me that foilists would tend to go with Kerry, epee would probably be split (double touches and all that), and saber would likely go for Bush. This is only my opinion and as such is inviolate.

I'm a foilist, but I didn't vote for Kerry. Didin't vote for Bush, either. I chose a different coin.

[Cipher]

I would say that if you looked at it from a socio-economic point of view, considering the cost of fencing gear and good coaching, that might shift some of the data toward the red.

[scrapinpeg]

The map of counties was eye-opening. The whole country looks red, even the notoriously blue states, with the exception of cities.

Makes sense, as I think about it. Cities occupy a unique and marvelous pinnacle in society: Cities cannot support themselves, relying instead on surrounding regions to provide food, water, fuel, materials and much of their labor force. Cities are home to economic elites free from ordinary economic cares, and to economic underclasses dependent on government subsidy, and to the civil service class of government employees. Cities are home to the arts and other callings that should be freed from the ordinary, and to wonderfully non-ordinary lifestyles. All of these things make cities more likely to be peopled with citizens in favor of the Democratic policies of more government programs, more social welfare, wage and price supports, freer art subsidy, broader social definitions of what is acceptable, union support, race- and class-consciousness, more flexible foreign policy based on consensus and negotiation, and idealism for the distant dream with resistance to immediate housecleaning.

The suburbs and exurbs, on the other hand, are less likely to be reliant on government for economic well-being, are less likely to be well-off enough to be free of concern about ordinary necessities, are more likely to be net producers rather than net consumers, and are more likely to be ordinary. This makes these areas more likely to be peopled with citizens in favor of Republican policies of less government involvement, less social welfare, more individual and community control, more individual and community responsibility, firmer foreign policy based on principles of justice instead of consensus, and idealism for present change with skepticism of long-term predictions be they good or bad.

Both are necessary and important points of view, and it is truly fortunate that our country is so closely divided.

[jeff]

Hmmm... I don't think I agree with that economic analysis. Historically, cities have been the source of economic value, and to this day are the funding engine for entire countries. Economies based on manufacturing, as ours - alas - used to be, require dense populations of workers, ditto for knowledge-based economies such as financial services. This is changing because of telecommunications, but there's much more economic contribution from cities than elsewhere. Revenue is driven from great cities (New York, London, SF, Paris, Frankfurt, Tokyo). States like NY are net contributors to the federal budget, not net consumers. Cities like NYC are net contributers to the NYS budget, not consumers.

Similarly, suburbs and rural areas do receive massive governmental support. The very road systems that made it possible for people to live in a suburb and commute to either an office park or the city (where the wealth is created) are results of governmental largesse. Government policy in the US since the 1950s has served to divert funding from cities to suburbs, which are far more expensive per capita than cities. The New York area is a very good case study, as Robert Moses built highways to get people away from NYC, while paving over existing neighborhoods and businesses to do that.

[Bayou Bum]

I hate the info, but I have to admit the results. Based on the membership report, 60% of adults and 70% of juniors/youth are in "blue" states. How can we save these poor souls?

My kids have even noticed that fencers we meet tend to be more liberal than most people. I live in a very red state and felt like I was at a Kerry convention at every tournament.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Bayou Bum

I hate the info, but I have to admit the results. Based on the membership report, 60% of adults and 70% of juniors/youth are in "blue" states. How can we save these poor souls?

My kids have even noticed that fencers we meet tend to be more liberal than most people. I live in a very red state and felt like I was at a Kerry convention at every tournament.

not for me..most fencers i meet seem to be "bush people"

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by scrapinpeg

The map of counties was eye-opening. The whole country looks red, even the notoriously blue states, with the exception of cities.

Keep in mind that the cities have a large population in a very small area, and that the rural areas are the exact opposite.

California is a great example. The majority of the people live in LA, the SF/Bay Area, and coastal areas. Having driven through parts of Cali, I can tell you the rest is a very big, empty desert.

[scrapinpeg]

Jeff: NYC's fiscal contribution is overwhelmingly derived from the finance sector. Money management, as opposed to economic value creation. But you make good points which serve to temper my generalizations, thanks!

[Svidrigailov]

I wonder who would win in a sword fight between bush and his latest rival for the presidency, kerry.

My money's on kerry...he's taller, smarter, and has real combat experience.

...although, Kerry would have to watch out for a pre-emptive strike from bush (i.e. tomahawk missle in his living room) before the beggining of the duel...

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Svidrigailov

I wonder who would win in a sword fight between bush and his latest rival for the presidency, kerry.

Thread.

[jeff]

Originally Posted by scrapinpeg

Jeff: NYC's fiscal contribution is overwhelmingly derived from the finance sector. Money management, as opposed to economic value creation. But you make good points which serve to temper my generalizations, thanks!

I'm glad you found that useful

Certainly NYC's revenue is now dominated by financial sector, but it used to be a major industrial center as well. The Iron Belt that became the Rust Belt also was a great engine of wealth creation (eg: Detroit). If you go to Tokyo you see it surrounded for many miles around by factory and warehouse. Whether industrial or "knowledge worker", the bulk of economic value is done in or around cities. Maybe that will decrease (there's no technical reason to have all the traders in a trading floor in lower Manhattan), but that's the way it has been.

[Larrison]

Originally Posted by glowstix

not for me..most fencers i meet seem to be "bush people"

In all earnestness --- I never asked. What's that got to do with fencing?

[Maeve_Mari]

Originally Posted by Bayou Bum

I hate the info, but I have to admit the results. Based on the membership report, 60% of adults and 70% of juniors/youth are in "blue" states. How can we save these poor souls?

My kids have even noticed that fencers we meet tend to be more liberal than most people. I live in a very red state and felt like I was at a Kerry convention at every tournament.

You could restrict access to available fencing salles in predominantly blue areas.

A similar practice worked well in November!

[Bayou Bum]

Originally Posted by Svidrigailov

I wonder who would win in a sword fight between bush and his latest rival for the presidency, kerry.

My money's on kerry...he's taller, smarter, and has real combat experience.

...although, Kerry would have to watch out for a pre-emptive strike from bush (i.e. tomahawk missle in his living room) before the beggining of the duel...

It would be funny! Kerry would:
* run off the end of the strip at the first sign of trouble.
* demand a purple heart every time he got scored on.
* want to switch sides whenever he got behind.
* blame the equipment and refs when he lost