NAC Denver - Results

[Junkie]

Could incidents like the two mentioned bring about FIE rated gloves. The cuff is a definate possibility but the hand itself would make the glove rather uncomfortable with a second layer of material under the leather/suede/whatever.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by DJ Apostrophe

Anna,

thanks for the update... I hope she is doing OK... please keep us posted.

-w

Ditto, with additional thanks to Jon.....

I'm sitting on the edge of my seat, here, people.

Let her know that the collective well-wishes of this particular odd little messageboard world are with her!

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by edew

With this Hacking incident coming at the heels of the Touya finger-webbing breach, and the many more unreported injuries to the fencing hand in saber, I think it's time that the FIE should look towards increasing the size of the saber guard. Perhaps to the old "Schultz" guard that American Fencers Supply used to sell. Even bigger than the schultz guard, perhaps.

If the real problem is penetration, why not just make saber gloves out of 1600N resistant material?

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by Junkie

Could incidents like the two mentioned bring about FIE rated gloves. The cuff is a definate possibility but the hand itself would make the glove rather uncomfortable with a second layer of material under the leather/suede/whatever.

Or perhaps just construct a glove the same way as the "washable" ones are made, with the outer layer of fabric and the cuff being made of the same material that is used to make the 800N plastrons.

That is unless the blade sneaks in through the hole for the bodycord.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by SabreGirl16

Believe it or not, Fencers Dov and Anna Jacobson do NOT belong to this family, but only to Nellya fencers club. Just thought I'd clarify for you guys.

Thanks. I had been told that Anna is a cousin. There certainly seems to be a family resemblance, but that may be my imagination...

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by sabreur

Stupid question, but was it a broken blade?

MR

Apparently no. That's what makes it so perplexing. I've been hit on the palm by a sabre thrust myself. It hurt, but did not penetrate. How a blunt, rolled point like that can actually pierce flesh is inexplicable to me.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Ferrethater

Inquartata, what is your name?

Mr. Mxyptlyk.

[whtouche]

Shrug.
A particularly stiff blade with little/no bend in it, hit at a particular angle that wouldn't necessarily bend the blade, combired with the fact that the hand was likely coming forward to compound the force of the impact, it's clearly possible.
Unlikely, and unlucky - yes. But not necessarily inexplicable.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by edew

The guard should be a ball surrounding the hand, with a fixed dimension, of course.

It will have to be hinged, in order to let the fencer insert his hand. Then latched tightly about the wrist.

those cheesy flicky cuts to the forearm (especially those the fencer never feels) will be eliminated and will then require more attacks and hits to the upper arm and body.

We could go to the pata model, in fact...

[sabrepoet]

Originally Posted by edew

The guard should be a ball surrounding the hand, with a fixed dimension, of course.

This way, all such hand injuries will be eliminated, and for most saber purists, those cheesy flicky cuts to the forearm (especially those the fencer never feels) will be eliminated and will then require more attacks and hits to the upper arm and body. This will allow for more parry-riposte in saber. As it is, many an attack either finish as scored or pre-empted with a lazy stop cut.

in addition to limiting the attacks to the hand, a guard such as you suggest would likely eliminate all of the elegance and finess from the discipline. it would not eliminate the stop cut, as that is an action that, when properly done, has more to do with distance, timing, and setting up your opponant than it does the placement or size of the guard. nor would it add signifcantly to the parry ripostes in the game, as most touches in modern sabre are won on distance and timing games rather than footwork... and that's fine... it's merely the evolution of the sport and nothing to be really worried about.

instead, we should focus on developing the senses of timing and distance in beginning fencers to a greater degree before throwing them at each other in competative situations where tension is running high. The Smart/Touya incident aside, most of the time that someone in sabre is hurt with a blade related injury, it is the result of one or both fencers lacking enough of a sense of the movement and pace of a bout to make intelligent actions. counterattacking with a lunge into an obviously fully developed attack as it reaches its fruition (as was the case in ruth ann hacking's bout) makes no tactical sense and is begging for injury.

a little more care in teaching the importance of good decision making would go a LOT further than changing the equipment around.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by whtouche

Shrug.
A particularly stiff blade with little/no bend in it, hit at a particular angle that wouldn't necessarily bend the blade, combired with the fact that the hand was likely coming forward to compound the force of the impact, it's clearly possible.
Unlikely, and unlucky - yes. But not necessarily inexplicable.

exactly. what else can be said? it can happen, and it did. stranger things have happened.

i know a guy who was tossed a pencil and, when reaching to catch it, got skewered by it. half sticking out on one side, half on the other, right in the middle of his hand. you wouldn't think a pencil being lightly tossed a short distance could do something like that.

[sabrepoet]

i will try to keep the updates flowing when i get them.
the last that i talked to ruth ann was last night, and she seemed to be doing largely ok. no real change in status from my last post. she still does not know when she will be coming home, but hopes that it will only be a few more days. i have the name of the hospital and a phone number where she can be reached if anyone is deperate to send her gifts or cheer her up on the phone. she has complained of being very bored, so i'm sure she'd love the attention.

private message me if you want the info, and i'll cough it up.... unless u're all wierd and stalkery...

[sabrepoet]

Originally Posted by noodle

i know a guy who was tossed a pencil and, when reaching to catch it, got skewered by it. half sticking out on one side, half on the other, right in the middle of his hand. you wouldn't think a pencil being lightly tossed a short distance could do something like that.

completely off topic, but when i was in HS, i tossed a friend of mine a pencil across the room, somewhat absently, and when i looked over to see if he had caught it, found that it had somehow bouced eraser-first into his noce, from which it was dangling uncerimoneously... true story... and proof that physics just always likes to keep us guessing.

[fluidfencer]

To save time, my coach and I often present fencing demonstrations by showing foil first, and then later sabre, only using a foil lame. Fencing sabre with no target on the arms is great fun, especially for a demonstration because it includes a LOT more parry-riposte exchanges. We use sabre masks so the mask is still target. Seriously fun.

Originally Posted by edew

With this Hacking incident coming at the heels of the Touya finger-webbing breach, and the many more unreported injuries to the fencing hand in saber, I think it's time that the FIE should look towards increasing the size of the saber guard. Perhaps to the old "Schultz" guard that American Fencers Supply used to sell. Even bigger than the schultz guard, perhaps.

The guard should be a ball surrounding the hand, with a fixed dimension, of course.

This way, all such hand injuries will be eliminated, and for most saber purists, those cheesy flicky cuts to the forearm (especially those the fencer never feels) will be eliminated and will then require more attacks and hits to the upper arm and body. This will allow for more parry-riposte in saber. As it is, many an attack either finish as scored or pre-empted with a lazy stop cut.

Lastly, it'll help budding saber clubs retain fencers who don't particularly enjoy getting hit in the knuckles in such a manner as which occurred with Touya and Hacking.

[annacattiva]

The latest from Denver: Ruth Ann is getting released from the hospital and will be on her way home this afternoon.

[sabrepoet]

sorry to those who private messaged me asking for ruth ann's contact info. i was called out of town unexpectedly and didn't get a chance to reply until after she came home. she's now back in nyc, safe and sound, and anyone wishing to do so should be able to reach her through the normal channels.