Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Morion · 03-09-2005, 11:32 PM

I recently purchased a pair of Leon Paul Etoile foil blades and used them to make my very first self assembled foils. Since then one tip came off completely and the other is loose. When I took one apart I at first thought that the threads were wrong since the tip wouldn't turn back on. I have even made a total dork of myself by emailing Leon Paul to ask why their threads are different.

However, after closer examination I realized that the problem is that the groove for the wire has collapsed in on itself effectively reducing the diameter ot the tip. My question is "How did I cause this?" I can only think that perhaps I torqued the tip barrel down too tight. Any ideas from the experienced armorers amongst you?

I was also wondering if anybody other that Leon Paul sells a 3.5 x 0.6 metric die. I hate the idea of paying $50 for a die when most I see are in the $4 to $6 range.

Purple Fencer · 03-09-2005, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morion

I recently purchased a pair of Leon Paul Etoile foil blades and used them to make my very first self assembled foils. Since then one tip came off completely and the other is loose. When I took one apart I at first thought that the threads were wrong since the tip wouldn't turn back on. I have even made a total dork of myself by emailing Leon Paul to ask why their threads are different.

However, after closer examination I realized that the problem is that the groove for the wire has collapsed in on itself effectively reducing the diameter ot the tip. My question is "How did I cause this?" I can only think that perhaps I torqued the tip barrel down too tight. Any ideas from the experienced armorers amongst you?

I was also wondering if anybody other that Leon Paul sells a 3.5 x 0.6 metric die. I hate the idea of paying $50 for a die when most I see are in the $4 to $6 range.

I would suspect a flaw in the blade itself when it was forged. The barrels aren't generally strong enough to deform the tip....aluminum barrel vs steel blade...the barrel will crack in half when you over-torque it.

My own foil blades were Etoiles....that's why I think that....they DID tend to bend in bizzare directions!

Re the die...I wouldn't worry about it...the process of rethreading a tip is long and arduous....most armorers I know won't even bother (Dan Dechaine being an exception...)

In fact, the only time I ever use a tip die is in case the tip threading is a little crushed and I need to clear it up...usually it's on smaaaaaaal spot...doesn;t need a full rotation of the diue to do the job.

Moses · 03-09-2005, 11:46 PM

Don't blame yourself, Morion! I doubt anything you could have done, tip-wise, could have deformed the wire groove in that manner. Be sure to contact Leon Paul right away and tell them about this problem.

-Da Mose

DHCJr · 03-09-2005, 11:59 PM

As Sam said, it does take some work. Basically you have to refill the groove at least as far as you are going to thread. On dies for the tips, I would only use High Speed Dies, they are more expensive, around $10, but they are worth it. I happen to get mine at Nate's tools locally. I would check the hardware stores in your area. You may have to special order.

This is not a quick solution, but both Dan & me will be at the Phoenix Open.

DHCJr · 03-10-2005, 12:00 AM

As Sam said, it does take some work. Basically you have to refill the groove at least as far as you are going to thread. On dies for the tips, I would only use High Speed Dies, they are more expensive, around $10, but they are worth it. I happen to get mine at Nate's tools locally. I would check the hardware stores in your area. You may have to special order. There is also the internet. Look up Metric Dies.

This is not a quick solution, but both Dan & me will be at the Phoenix Open.

***Craig*** · 03-10-2005, 11:22 AM

Hey there. I contacted London to check on if there were any mfr. issues lately and there haven't been any.

The most likely cause is that the barrel has been over tightened and crushed the groove as it ought to be. (If it wasn't, then you would't have been able to get the tip on at all.

If the groove is crushed then it can be re threaded by gently opening with a chisel or similar and then re threading by jamming a paperclip or other filler in it and re threading using a die.

I'm sending this to you in email as well via the ticket.

Thanks,
Craig

Morion · 03-10-2005, 02:21 PM

Thanks Craig! I have a ticket in with LP as well. On one blade at least I will have to rethread it completely. The original threads are just about gone due to the barrel wobbling back and forth on it. If I can find the tools I can do it.

Inquartata · 03-10-2005, 03:22 PM

What did you do wrong? You elected to fence foil, that's what!

Sorry, it had to be said.

Morion · 03-10-2005, 03:37 PM

There are too few Epeeists in my Salle. If I fence foil I can always get a bout!

KD5MDK · 03-10-2005, 05:45 PM

Sabre doesn't have these problems...

We don't pay much in blades and repairs, we just pay it in lames and masks.

Inquartata · 03-10-2005, 08:42 PM

Which of course foilists don't need.

mrbiggs · 03-10-2005, 10:35 PM

If you fence epee, you often don't even know you have a weapon problem!

Now THAT'S handy!

Morion · 03-19-2005, 05:51 PM

I've had a bit of time to look over this particular blade and to repair and reuse its mate that was not so badly damaged. I now think I know what happened. Apparently the barrel of the tip backed off, but was held in place by the tape. Since I mostly dry fence I didn't notice that it was getting loose. As the tip got loose it began to rock back and forth which crushed the groove and damaged the threads. In the meantime I am still trying to find a 3.5 x 0.6 die to repair this blade with. If any of you know of an online source for this tool in the USA please let me know.

That is of course excluding Leon Paul. Sorry Craig but $50 is too much to pay for one of those.

Inquartata · 03-19-2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morion

I am still trying to find a 3.5 x 0.6 die to repair this blade with. If any of you know of an online source for this tool in the USA please let me know.

Only one I could find on short notice:

http://www.jtsmach.com/jtswebshop/Taps_Dies/T092.asp

Morion · 03-20-2005, 11:48 AM

Inq you are my hero! I've tried a dozen different searches and couldn't come up with a source. You must have the hang of this internet thing!

DHCJr · 03-21-2005, 05:32 PM

Here are a few others

www.e-taps.com

www.tapdie.com/html/metric__dies.html - 54k

jcsonlinetoolshed.com/section.php