Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Sciurus Rex · 02-20-2002, 07:54 AM

I'm not going to identify my section, because it's a small world and too easy to figure out specific names. Besides, this has probably happened to you, wherever you live.

I was looking forward to a competition this weekend, and my wife had even scheduled time off work to join me. I had preregistered weeks in advance. I kept checking the Website for an update of the (fairly short) names list. Everything was dandy ... until Tuesday when the online information changed. Now the event is being planned for the middle of March. And not all the online info matches, either - some of it still cites February dates.

A few weeks ago, I traveled out of state for another small competition. Several hours drive, rising early, to make the 8:30 a.m. registration deadline. I even called a few days earlier to confirm the time and place. But when I showed up, there's nary a body in sight. Someone decided the event shouldn't actually begin until 10-ish, but didn't bother to tell anyone outside the club.

Before that, there was the small matter of a competition venue address published online as 1234 Whatever Drive. Yeah, I had plenty of time to get there. I had my MapQuest printouts and directions laid out in the passenger seat as I'm driving. But this time I ended up on the other side of the city, because the address was actually 12345 Whatever Drive. The extra digit was a killer.

Then there's the small matter of event registration and competition format programs. ... You gotta love the TWO HOURS of effort it takes to organize 30 people in pools before the competition. That includes some guys who had already preregistered weeks earlier. (And, no; I'm not talking about the time between seeding pools and direct elimination. That's another problem.)

I could come up with more examples to gripe about, but you get the idea.

Yeah, yeah, yeah ... I know that the USFA organizers at the highest levels work hard to make sure our competitions flow smoothly. We can set aside minor arguments over that.

What I'm looking at is the incompetence or inadequacies of the sport at local levels. Is it no wonder that we can't hold the attention of spectators? That we can't schedule TV news video opportunities? That many named competitions die after only a few years?

We got no organization!!!

HilandDoug · 02-20-2002, 08:54 AM

Boy, Howdy! It sounds like your division has a problem with scheduling. In the Michigan Division, we have planning meetings at the beginning and middle of the season and get the schedule mapped out way ahead of time to avoid the pitfalls you wrote about. I would suggest you run for office in your division so you can address those problems.

Does your division ahve a secretary who updates your division website? If not, you need one.

Best of luck to you!

edew · 02-20-2002, 09:05 AM

Those symptoms are indications of growing pains. Due diligence in terms of scheduling is required. We in the Bay Area schedule the full season way ahead of time. The dates are not permitted to change, and very rarely will locations change. At the same time, all locations are fairly well-known to most people. They're all at the same places (the various clubs).

Check-in close times must be adhered to, as well.

We recommend using cards for seeding. Computers never do a good enough job for 60 or fewer fencers. We're going to improve on that next season, too. I won't tell you how it's done, because, frankly, it might not work (nothing is 100% sure), and perhaps other divisions can get their creative ideas implemented as well.

We do have occasions when it takes some time to get the next event running, but that's usually due to lack of space rather than seeding problems. Get fencing parents to help out in the bout committee work. It's not easy to start, but once one has done a couple, it's fairly simple to do. And they enjoy being involved.

Methix · 02-20-2002, 09:34 AM

I know how you feel. The colorado division is pretty good about making a schedule and staying with it. I'm annoyed at the rocky mtn section right now... The best they can do for sectionals is May-date TBA, venue TBA-maybe Lubbock, TX. I tried emailing the contact on the website and it gets bounced back... I'm trying to plan a trip in May, but have no idea when sectionals is. And I have to see if I can even go with finals week in May. ARGH!!!!!

ok, I'm done now...

One thing the Colorado division did that was pretty nice was to make check in times standard for most of our events, epee is always check-in close at 9, foil 11, and sabre 1. Sucks for us epeeists (especially since I don't live in Denver or Boulder where most of the events are held), but the consistancy is nice.

Zelda · 02-20-2002, 09:51 AM

Well QAFA (my state body back home) is generally quite organised (check out the web site <a href="http://www.qafa.org.au)" target="_blank">http://www.qafa.org.au)</a> but then again womens foil is always the same half dozen people or so!

Peach · 02-20-2002, 10:03 AM

In my division one club kept getting its results in late and didn't run its tournaments quickly, and was sanctioned the next year as a result--wasn't permitted to hold any division tournaments at all. It caused a lot of bad feelings and some political shenanigans.

On the whole, though, our division does an outstanding job of planning and coordinating tournaments. They work it so each club plans around the other clubs and so qualifiers aren't held in conflict, and they have the schedule on the division website.

Gav · 02-20-2002, 11:26 AM

I know how you feel. I've heard it said that Scottish Fencing's worst enemy is itself and thats pretty true. None of the adult fencers feel that they're getting any support from their governing body and as far as getting financial help - forget it. You have to be part of the 'correct' clique. We (our club) have got a representative in our local section who is pushing for greater participation in the general running of things, but change, (like everyrthing else in the UK) is slow. For example our local section championships have just been cancelled [again]. They seem unable to go ahead with the championships despite our raising the profile and getting the local universty clubs to send delegations. There is a suspicion that the real reason that they refuse to run the competition is that they're 'darlings' would have to face competition for selection for the various teams. To be frank it makes me sick...

Sciurus Rex · 02-20-2002, 01:24 PM

I know it's easy to sit back and point fingers at the other guy. We naturally expect SOMEONE ELSE to take care of the problem instead of fixing it ourselves. Heck, I'm as bad as the next guy. My initial message here certainly didn't offer a solution.

In truth, the only one who can make the system work as well as I expect is ... me. Yeah, I've got to get involved and help organize events. When something is wrong, I've got to be willing to make it right. No excuses, right? You don't need to tell me twice.

But, blast it! Why the heck can't we attract more organizational skills and competence to this sport on a local level? What is it about fencing that ensures badly-run events? Where are the people that give consistent structure to baseball and football leagues?

(Blargh!)

Inquartata · 02-20-2002, 02:41 PM

Fencing is at its base an individual sport, and organizing tends to get done by individuals acting in isolation with little real collegiality as a result. Sports such as baseball and basketball build from a foundation of a team ethos, in administration as well as in the players. At least that's my pop-psychology take on it.

By the way, I have you all beat in the anecdote department. I once drove two hours to a tournament only to find an empty venue and a scrawled sign taped to the door reading "sabre event cancelled". Seems the reighning foil-epee contingent decided that since no sabre-fencers had showed up to stand around and watch their events they must not be coming at all, and they had better things to do than wait until the check-in time had elapsed.

Considerate, huh?

swordsen · 02-21-2002, 08:54 AM

A lot of fencing clubs don't have alot of institutional memory. Especially college clubs. byt the time someone figures put how to run an event right he/she graduates and is gone. and unfortunetly, tournament running is pretty much never taught.

Inquartata · 02-21-2002, 05:15 PM

Boy, is THAT the truth.

Mergs · 02-22-2002, 04:18 AM

Um, where is the coach?

Actually, the overall orgainization of the tournament is probably better left to the non-fencers. Unfortunately not many clubs have parents/SO's etc. that care to do that kind of thing. The worst that I have seen is the tournaments where the organizers are trying to compete at their own tourney! Boy, does that REALLY get messed up.

swordsen · 02-22-2002, 04:53 AM

In alot of college clubs the coach per se is one of the students too. He just happens to have been around longer. Or they sub-contract a coach from a neighboring club to come in and give lessons once a week or something. ahe this guy is usually busy at his club when the college group wants to ahve a tournament.

Catlady · 02-22-2002, 03:14 PM

I agree, organization is always a bit hairy, especially with local things. At a recent tournament there was a last minute venue change and half the competitors got lost and didn't make it. Still, on the organizer's behalf, it is all volunteer. The organizers are trying to do all this stuff plus live their normal lives too. The primary organizer at my club lives about an hour's drive away from the club itself--actually closer to another club, but he felt that there needed to be a club closer to our area--so for him to make it in on weekends for tournaments requires a bit of extra effort and he's one of the better directors as well as being one of the more experienced tournament runners. (If he's reading this let me say thanks publicly).
I've noticed that at least in my division, and this may just be a funtion of Utah (aka Mormon) standard time, but part of the reason the check in takes so long is that everyone seems to arrive at the last possible minute.

Anyway, just a few thoughts.