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View Poll Results: Would you exploit your opponent's injury? | |
Yes, even if I don't consider the bout to be important.
|     | 34 | 27.42% | |
Yes, if I consider the bout to be important.
|    | 55 | 44.35% | |
No, even if I don't consider the bout to be important.
|    | 13 | 10.48% | |
No, even if I consider the bout to be imporant.
|    | 38 | 30.65% | 
03-08-2005, 02:15 PM
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#21 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Carolina über Alles
Posts: 2,608
| I know what bell punching is, but what's sweeping?
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03-08-2005, 05:31 PM
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#22 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 787
| I am evil. Yes.
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03-08-2005, 06:43 PM
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#23 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,925
| Assuming that my opponent is of sound mind when they agree to fence with an injury, I'll treat that injury just as I would any particular weakness. I mean, if someone has a really bad attack, I'm not going to stop parrying to accomodate them...
Every time I fence, I try to fence the best I can. I hope that regardless of their abilities, my opponent will do the same.
Just to clarify - I wouldn't rush in and try to exacerbate my opponents' injury... no deliberate hits to sore knees or anything like that. That's weak and doesn't really belong in sport...
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03-08-2005, 06:52 PM
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#24 | | Epee fencing addict
Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Glenwood, ny
Posts: 2,288
| My answer probably depends to some degree on the nature of the injury or impairment. I would NOT, for example, go out of my way to hit an injured knee. I would also not go out of my way to avoid it either as my opponent made a concious, informed decision about venturing out on the piste and deserves the consequences of their decision.
On the other hand, if the problem was something like a hangover - something that the fencer did to himself - and I was fencing epee - I would , with great glee, take a few extra pot shots at the mask to rattle his nerves a bit. Heck, I might even give up an off-target hit to the mask in foil if I knew there was a self-induced impediment to take advantage of.
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03-08-2005, 06:54 PM
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#25 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,925
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by parrythis On the other hand, if the problem was something like a hangover - something that the fencer did to himself - and I was fencing epee - I would , with great glee, take a few extra pot shots at the mask to rattle his nerves a bit. Heck, I might even give up an off-target hit to the mask in foil if I knew there was a self-induced impediment to take advantage of. | See, there's two kinds of evil in the world... "good" evil, and "bad" evil.
That's "good" evil. 
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Pound for pound, the amoeba is the most vicious animal on earth. | |
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03-08-2005, 07:03 PM
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#26 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,537
| Does being fat, or out of shape, count as a disability? I'm out there to win, and if I can hurt him within the rules, and not get carded, so be it. I expect my opponents to do the same, and they have on many occasions. I wore a knee brace at the tournament this weekend, and they deliberately hit me there, very very hard, and it set me back. No hard feelings at all, and I'm still friends with them. Its all in the name of gamesmanship and desire to win at all costs. I respect that, deeply, no matter how much it hurts.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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03-08-2005, 07:11 PM
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#27 | | Boom!
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Canada
Posts: 5,925
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! Does being fat, or out of shape, count as a disability? I'm out there to win, and if I can hurt him within the rules, and not get carded, so be it. I expect my opponents to do the same, and they have on many occasions. I wore a knee brace at the tournament this weekend, and they deliberately hit me there, very very hard, and it set me back. No hard feelings at all, and I'm still friends with them. Its all in the name of gamesmanship and desire to win at all costs. I respect that, deeply, no matter how much it hurts. | Fencing wise, there's nothing wrong with being fat or out of shape. It took a lot of effort to get fat and out of shape.
Or balding - there's nothing wrong with going bald, either! Besides, it's just receeding a little, and that's a cowlick in the back!!!! 
All joking aside, though - would you go out of your way to disable an opponent to win at all costs, even if you knew it could cost your opponent dearly? What if you hadn't been wearing that brace, he hit you, you knew it was deliberate, and you had just posted to the forum from your hospital bed? Would you feel the same then?
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Pound for pound, the amoeba is the most vicious animal on earth. | |
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03-08-2005, 07:21 PM
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#28 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,537
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Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt Fencing wise, there's nothing wrong with being fat or out of shape. It took a lot of effort to get fat and out of shape.
Or balding - there's nothing wrong with going bald, either! Besides, it's just receeding a little, and that's a cowlick in the back!!!!
All joking aside, though - would you go out of your way to disable an opponent to win at all costs, even if you knew it could cost your opponent dearly? What if you hadn't been wearing that brace, he hit you, you knew it was deliberate, and you had just posted to the forum from your hospital bed? Would you feel the same then? | I'm having trouble walking my knee hurts so much man. Its got a big blackish blue bruise around it. Its not pretty, and its not fun. Never the less, I respect him, and I can still associate with him as a friend and comrade at sport. Next time I fence him, at the very least I'll give him some bruises to show to his GF.
I wouldnt use dirty hits against a female fencer though... I'm discriminatory about who I disable.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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03-08-2005, 09:00 PM
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#29 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Singapore
Posts: 366
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by ThatReallyHurt Fencing wise, there's nothing wrong with being fat or out of shape. It took a lot of effort to get fat and out of shape.
Or balding - there's nothing wrong with going bald, either! Besides, it's just receeding a little, and that's a cowlick in the back!!!!
All joking aside, though - would you go out of your way to disable an opponent to win at all costs, even if you knew it could cost your opponent dearly? What if you hadn't been wearing that brace, he hit you, you knew it was deliberate, and you had just posted to the forum from your hospital bed? Would you feel the same then? |
Yes. I know that sounds really harsh but so long as it is within the rules, I would. To do any less is to disrespect my opponent's ability.
I've been taught and I will similarly teach it to my students that certain points on the human body hurt more than others when hit by a small point, e.g. an epee tip. Places like the inside of the elbow, the boney protrusion on top of the wrist, armpit (my favourite), groin ( ppl have wise up to this one and started wearing groin guards), clavicle, inside of the knee and top of the foot. Hits to these places especially hard ones will cause significant pain without permanent injury. The pain should last long enough to gain an advantage for one or two points, but the psychological advantage last far longer; especially when the more difficult ones are pulled of, i.e. the wrist and armpit.
To condition against these, my master applied those hits to me during training countless of times till it now no longer bothers me. (Well except for the groin hit, for that I have a groin guard). I'm doing the same for my students. Some of them are already immune to hard hits to the wrist, elbow and clavicle.
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In Deum Veritas, In Deum Caritas
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03-09-2005, 01:38 AM
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#30 | | Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Betelgeuse Five
Posts: 99
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! I'm having trouble walking my knee hurts so much man. Its got a big blackish blue bruise around it. Its not pretty, and its not fun. Never the less, I respect him, and I can still associate with him as a friend and comrade at sport. Next time I fence him, at the very least I'll give him some bruises to show to his GF.
I wouldnt use dirty hits against a female fencer though... I'm discriminatory about who I disable. |
Whining, sexist, and deliberate injuries ... must be fun on the strip. I don't remember seeing you in a knee brace this weekend. Why is it your knee only hurts when you lose?
There is a difference between running someone older and out of shape or injured up and down the strip and delivering deliberate hard blows with intentions on hurting. Get another sport! | |
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03-09-2005, 09:02 AM
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#31 | | Member
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Betelgeuse Five
Posts: 99
| For everyone who likes to injure opponents ... take note. Draconis injured his ankle in his first ever tournament so make sure you get those ankle shots in.
If you are willing to do anything for the win, do you also walk around the strips stepping on opponents blades and equipment? Why not, if an opponent leaves weapons on the floor next to the strip, a well placed step could disable both of them. After all, anything for the win, Right? | |
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03-09-2005, 10:26 AM
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#32 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,537
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox Whining, sexist, and deliberate injuries ... must be fun on the strip. I don't remember seeing you in a knee brace this weekend. Why is it your knee only hurts when you lose?
There is a difference between running someone older and out of shape or injured up and down the strip and delivering deliberate hard blows with intentions on hurting. Get another sport! | I wear it under the knickers and socks. Sounds like somebody has a grudge 
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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03-09-2005, 10:29 AM
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#33 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,537
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Beeblebrox For everyone who likes to injure opponents ... take note. Draconis injured his ankle in his first ever tournament so make sure you get those ankle shots in.
If you are willing to do anything for the win, do you also walk around the strips stepping on opponents blades and equipment? Why not, if an opponent leaves weapons on the floor next to the strip, a well placed step could disable both of them. After all, anything for the win, Right? |
Cause you could get carded for deliberate tampering with equipment, especially if someone noticed. You cant get carded for hitting an opponents weak spot, only if you did it brutally, which in epee, is hard to get carded for. Besides that, stepping on a weapon, unless you break the blade, probably isnt going to disable them. Most fencing weapons are subject to MUCH greater force them simply being stepped on... hell, I step on them to straighten them.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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03-09-2005, 11:19 AM
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#34 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: London
Posts: 1,216
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! You cant get carded for hitting an opponents weak spot, only if you did it brutally | ... which is what we're discussing, as we're talking about hitting a person in a manner that's intended to injure them.
Quite frankly, an attempt to take out your opponent's knee (rather than just hit it) -- or injure them in any other way -- is a clearly unsportsmanlike and deserves a black card.
It can also be a foolish thing to do -- someone who's fencing on a real injury will generally be pretty tough. It takes a lot of willpower to come back from an injury that's bad enough to really need the brace ... that person will be inspired to make you pay for targeting their injury. And probably by making you lose, badly (particularly if you're such a horrible fencer that you feel that injuring your opponent is the best way to win in the first place).
Sure, there are people who don't have a real injury, and wear a brace to convince themselves not to worry (or so they have an excuse if they lose), but people who need them? They're fighters. If you hit them there, prepare to either lose or be ambushed in the parking lot (or both), because they won't put up with that kind of nonsense. | |
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03-09-2005, 03:54 PM
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#35 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: All over the place.
Posts: 130
| It really depends on if i like the guy or not and how important the bout is. There are some people who i would almost love to to see getting injured(as long as its not my fault) and others who i would gladly ask for injury time on thier behalf. But it is a bit underhanded it one wins a bout purly beacause ones apponent is injured. 
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03-09-2005, 05:40 PM
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#36 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 278
| I may have to change my vote. I never considered that my opponents' mental stupidity may have been the result of a head injury. I have been taking advantage of fencers stupid moves on the strip for years without ever thinking that their lousy fencing could have been the result of a severe blow to the head. Is it unfair to take advantage of a fencers' diminished mental capacity due to genetics? Oh no, I may never be able to fence in Tennessee again!
Bum
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03-09-2005, 06:13 PM
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#37 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,537
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Originally Posted by Bayou Bum I may have to change my vote. I never considered that my opponents' mental stupidity may have been the result of a head injury. I have been taking advantage of fencers stupid moves on the strip for years without ever thinking that their lousy fencing could have been the result of a severe blow to the head. Is it unfair to take advantage of a fencers' diminished mental capacity due to genetics? Oh no, I may never be able to fence in Tennessee again!
Bum | hehehe.... you can take advantage of stupidity too! and no chance of being carded!  lol, could yall quit bugging me? its not like you're one of the few fencers I've actually hurt.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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03-09-2005, 06:42 PM
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#38 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,537
| also, I do not recall attacking your particular methods or beliefs when it comes to fencing. It sounds like, since both of you apparently know me (I dont know you though), it sounds like you have a problem with me, and dont want to be awkward and stuff by confronting me at a tournament. Well, a tournament, on the strip, is really the best place to settle these kinds of issues, not picking my nits on a message board. If you guys are who I think you are, I havent wronged either of you, so I dunno why you would have a problem with me.
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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03-09-2005, 10:14 PM
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#39 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Posts: 150
| Last year in Vegas at the Duel in the Desert the first guy I fenced literally ran me over. I was the second person he'd bowled over trying to fleche. They said my shoulders hit the ground while my legs were still vertical. Needless to say my knee was blown out. It's taken a full year to be able to hit the strip again and I'm nowhere close to being back.
It was cowardly and crass and totally unnecessary. Hurting someone in order to win is just not what fencers are supposed to be all about.
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03-09-2005, 10:39 PM
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#40 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,537
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