A Rated Fencers

[ReverseLunge]

How long did it take you to get your A and how tough was the road to get there?

[garyhayenga]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

How long did it take you to get your A and how tough was the road to get there?

It took me 11 years. Started at 18 in 1981 and got my A at 29 in 1992.

It was fairly tough. I had no coaching in the first 4 years, so although I practiced hard some of what I practiced was wrong, and the only people I had to fence with locally weren't much better than I was. Then, when I finally got coaching, I had to break a bunch of bad habits.

After I finally got some good coaching in 1987 I got a a B in 1989 and then the A in 1992. I had moved and it helped that I had fairly good people to practice with as well. I practiced 4-5 times a week for 2+ hours and took 3 lessons a week as well.

gary hayenga

[mike morgan]

I earned my A in epee in 1965, my A in foil in 1966, and my A in sabre in 1968.

I began fencing in 1958, under the tutelage of the Hungarian fencing master Bela de Tuscan. I took about four lessons a week and worked very hard.
In 1963 I commenced my collegiate fencing career at the University of Pennsylvania and was trained by Penn’s legendary Head Fencing Coach Maestro Lajos Csiszar. At that time the NCAA restrictions on practice were very different than today. Besides studying I basically lived in the Penn fencing room.

Maestro Csiszar’s private fencing Salle was housed in the Penn fencing room and Penn’s undergraduate fencers were allowed and encouraged to fence—and take lessons-- at Salle Csiszar as much as they wished.

Also, most of the Philadelphia Division’s meets were held at Penn so in addition to my collegiate schedule I was also able to compete in almost weekly tournaments.

During my collegiate career at Penn I took an average of 5 lessons a week for four years and fenced about five-six days a week. After graduation, I joined Salle Csiszar in Philadelphia and for the next 12-15 years averaged about 3-4 lessons a week from Maestro Csiszar.

The competition at Salle Csiszar was outstanding and remarkably challenging. We averaged 12-18 A’s at any one time. At our club Maestro Csiszar trained dozens of Olympians, U.S. national championship teams, U.S. National team members, and numerous men and women U.S. national individual champions.

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by garyhayenga

After I finally got some good coaching in 1987 I got a a B in 1989 and then the A in 1992. I had moved and it helped that I had fairly good people to practice with as well. I practiced 4-5 times a week for 2+ hours and took 3 lessons a week as well.

thats awesome. coaching does make a difference. when i had my first one on one coaching session, i was made aware of some really small, subtle mistakes i was making and making the necessary changes made a lot of difference. its also easy to fall back into bad habits so regular lesssons, if possible, should be taken. 4-5 times per week is a lot. i get about 1.5 days per week for a total of 3-5 hours and i drive "mad" distances just to get there. hopefully my situation will change as i think the change would be necessary for ME to get to an A..

[DangerMouse]

9 years. Partially because I was in Wisconsin for 5 and there isn't much decent epee fencing there.

[oiuyt]

I started fencing (epee) in late 1994. Started sabre in early 1999. First earned my A (sabre) in summer, 2001.

During the 2000-2001 season I took probably about 6-7 lessons from a local coach, mostly cleaning up some basic form (I've been otherwise self-taught in sabre).

How tough was the road? Not really sure how to answer that.

-B :)

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

I started fencing (epee) in late 1994. Started sabre in early 1999. First earned my A (sabre) in summer, 2001.

During the 2000-2001 season I took probably about 6-7 lessons from a local coach, mostly cleaning up some basic form (I've been otherwise self-taught in sabre).

How tough was the road? Not really sure how to answer that.

-B

well if you're saying from '99 to '01 then apparently it wasn't that tough then!!

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Again, I think that we have to point out that he is 12'9'' and he has arms that are around 10' long, and his epee skills payed off since he was a master at stop cut to wrist. I wish I was that tall.....

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

I wish I was that tall.....

yeah. because you're really f-ing short .

*******.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Well....I used to be

[MyrddinsPrecint]

i am the queen of threaddrift.

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

Well....I used to be

yes, but i still am.

and my growth plates fused a few years ago.

and i keep going to doctors ("my wrists have started hurting a lot recently, and both my sister and father had carpel tunnel.... " --"yeah, nothing's wrong with you. but your growth plates have fused!" --------------- "i've been having trouble with my ankles since i was 8. recently i've started just falling on my face while walking. is there anything i can do?...." --"yeah, nothing's wrong with you. but your growth plates have fused!") who keep telling me that my growth plates have fused, as if this great knowledge that i can now buy the clothing that i can expect to wear for the rest of my life is supposed to make up for regularly falling on my face when i fence.... or cross the street.... and there's nothting at all they can do or suggest.

grrrrrrrrr.

[SmokeyTheCat263]

About 8 years...I started when i was 11, but didn't get serious till I was maybe 13 or 14....and it's tough trying to get better in a fencing-desolate area. So in the past year-n-half, I would go to New York maybe once a month for some better fencing. Last summer I spent about a week in New York before summer nationals, fenced everyday, and then fenced at the Pomme De Terre. I got 3rd, so they gave me an A.

[sreckiki]

One month so the road was not too hard...

But OK, that wasn't really fair since I've fenced for 3 years and half in my country before coming in US.

[mike morgan]

In 1965 I earned my A rating in epee. In 1966 I attained the A rating in foil, and in 1967 got my A rating in sabre. In those years fencing three weapons was quite common, and indeed the “Individual 3-Weapon Competition” was a popular event.

I began fencing in 1958, under the tutelage of the Hungarian fencing master Bela de Tuscan. I took about three lessons a week and worked very hard.

In 1963 I commenced my collegiate fencing career at the University of Pennsylvania and was trained by Penn’s legendary Head Fencing Coach Maestro Lajos Csiszar. At that time the NCAA restrictions on practice were dramatically different than today. Besides studying I basically lived in the Penn fencing room.

Maestro Csiszar’s private fencing Salle was housed in the Penn fencing room and Penn’s undergraduate fencers were allowed and encouraged to fence—and take lessons-- at Salle Csiszar as much as they wished.

Also, most of the Philadelphia Division’s meets were held at Penn so in addition to my annual collegiate schedule I was also able to compete in almost weekly tournaments.

During my collegiate career at Penn I took an average of 5 lessons a week for four years and fenced about five days a week not including collegiate meets. After graduation, I joined Salle Csiszar in Philadelphia and for the next 12-15 years averaged about 3-4 lessons a week from Maestro Csiszar.

The competition at Salle Csiszar was outstanding and remarkably challenging. We averaged 16-20 A’s at any one time. At our club Maestro Csiszar trained dozens of Olympians, U.S. national championship teams, U.S. national team members, and numerous men and women U.S. national individual champions.

I was most fortunate to have always had excellent coaching and the perfect environment in which to continually hone my competitive skills.

[Mr Epee]

This really isn't apples to apples, because it used to be much much harder to earn A & B ratings.

When Gary H. says that he fenced 11 years and earned his A in the mid 90's it is a very better result than where the bar is set today.

There was a time when it was fairly common for a B rated fencers to be ranked in the top 32 in Men's Epee. That is practically unheard of today. Also there were practically no Juniors who had earned A rankings in ME.

This has all changed, for the better I think, but it does make comparisons difficult.

National Finals and top 16's might be a better indicator. :-)

[SmokeyTheCat263]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

This really isn't apples to apples, because it used to be much much harder to earn A & B ratings.

I agree. I remember when i first started doing circuit events, maybe the top 8 in cadet mens foil had Bs, and a couple in junior foil had As. It has gotten progressively easier over time to earn high ratings. My most recent (and last) junior tourney, which was this JOs had maybe 20 or so As in junior foil, and 40 or so B's. Crazy.

[veeco]

True, but I think that at least in the case of men's epee, the level of fencing in the US has dramatically improved in the past years.

While I wasn't fencing in the US in the early 90s, I have seen fencers who were top level US fencers in the early 90s, and I have seen the top level US fencers of today, and it's not really fair to compare the 2. Perhaps it was harder to get an A before, but in terms of abilities and work involved, I would say that getting in the top 32 before was relatively easy compared to today.

Further, in the 4 1/2 years I fenced in the US, I must say I saw the improvement continue, and people who used to be top dog nationally have a harder time to compete.

So I wouldn't say that a person who earned their A first in the 90s would be significantly better than a person who earned their A today. In fact, I think that in most cases, the 90s A would receive a beating from the 2000s A.

To answer the original question, as for Sreckiki, it didn't take me long to earn my A. But I had been fencing for a while.

[Insipiens]

So, for a foreigner, what do you have to do to earn an A rating (or a B for that matter) and why is it now easier?

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Insipiens

So, for a foreigner, what do you have to do to earn an A rating (or a B for that matter) and why is it now easier?

http://www.usfencing.org/Documents/R...sMan/Class.asp

i suppose its now easier because there are more rated fencers around so its easier to find high rated events thus giving more opportunity to get a rating. also, back then, the rating system was cutoff at C, now there's D's and E's so more total rated fencers. there are probably other reasons...

[mike morgan]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

This really isn't apples to apples, because it used to be much much harder to earn A & B ratings.

When Gary H. says that he fenced 11 years and earned his A in the mid 90's it is a very better result than where the bar is set today.

There was a time when it was fairly common for a B rated fencers to be ranked in the top 32 in Men's Epee. That is practically unheard of today. Also there were practically no Juniors who had earned A rankings in ME.

This has all changed, for the better I think, but it does make comparisons difficult.

National Finals and top 16's might be a better indicator. :-)

Your point is well taken. It is very hard to compare the relative ‘worth’ or significance of ratings over the decades. In the (distant) past—50’s, 60’s 70’s-- there were no youth events, almost no junior events, and no Division I-A, II or III categories. And there were no ratings below C. All National Championships were what we now term Division I.

But I think today’s classification categories are much better suited to our sport’s burgeoning growth and popularity.

As for my ancient history, in 1965 I earned my A rating in epee. In the following four years I subsequently earned my A in sabre, and A in foil. At that time fencing three weapons was quite common, and indeed the “Individual 3-Weapon Competition” had been a popular divisional event, and for many, many years was an integral part of the US National Championships.

I started fencing in 1958, under the tutelage of the Hungarian fencing master Bela de Tuscan. I took about three lessons a week and worked very hard.

In 1963 I began my collegiate fencing career at the University of Pennsylvania and was trained by Penn’s legendary Hungarian Head Fencing Coach, Maestro Lajos Csiszar. At that time the NCAA restrictions on practice were dramatically different than today. Besides studying I basically lived in the Penn fencing room.

Maestro Csiszar’s private fencing Salle was housed in the Penn fencing room and Penn’s undergraduate fencers were allowed and encouraged to fence--and take free private lessons -- at Salle Csiszar as much as they wished.

Also, most of the Philadelphia Division’s meets were held at Penn so in addition to my annual collegiate schedule I was also able to compete in almost weekly tournaments.

During my collegiate career at Penn I took an average of 5 lessons a week for four years and fenced about five days a week not including collegiate meets. After graduation, I joined Salle Csiszar in Philadelphia and for the next 15 years averaged about 3-4 lessons a week from Maestro Csiszar.

The competition at Salle Csiszar was outstanding and remarkably challenging. Our Salle averaged 16-20 A’s at any one time. At our club Maestro Csiszar trained dozens of Olympians, U.S. national championship teams, U.S. national team members, and numerous men and women U.S. national individual champions.

I was very fortunate to have always had excellent coaching and the perfect environment in which to continually hone my competitive skills.