Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: A Rated Fencers

  1. #1
    Senior Member ReverseLunge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    3,153

    A Rated Fencers

    How long did it take you to get your A and how tough was the road to get there?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Posts
    386
    Quote Originally Posted by ReverseLunge
    How long did it take you to get your A and how tough was the road to get there?
    It took me 11 years. Started at 18 in 1981 and got my A at 29 in 1992.

    It was fairly tough. I had no coaching in the first 4 years, so although I practiced hard some of what I practiced was wrong, and the only people I had to fence with locally weren't much better than I was. Then, when I finally got coaching, I had to break a bunch of bad habits.

    After I finally got some good coaching in 1987 I got a a B in 1989 and then the A in 1992. I had moved and it helped that I had fairly good people to practice with as well. I practiced 4-5 times a week for 2+ hours and took 3 lessons a week as well.

    gary hayenga

  3. #3
    Senior Member mike morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Ft. Myers, Florida
    Posts
    101
    I earned my A in epee in 1965, my A in foil in 1966, and my A in sabre in 1968.

    I began fencing in 1958, under the tutelage of the Hungarian fencing master Bela de Tuscan. I took about four lessons a week and worked very hard.
    In 1963 I commenced my collegiate fencing career at the University of Pennsylvania and was trained by Penn’s legendary Head Fencing Coach Maestro Lajos Csiszar. At that time the NCAA restrictions on practice were very different than today. Besides studying I basically lived in the Penn fencing room.

    Maestro Csiszar’s private fencing Salle was housed in the Penn fencing room and Penn’s undergraduate fencers were allowed and encouraged to fence—and take lessons-- at Salle Csiszar as much as they wished.

    Also, most of the Philadelphia Division’s meets were held at Penn so in addition to my collegiate schedule I was also able to compete in almost weekly tournaments.

    During my collegiate career at Penn I took an average of 5 lessons a week for four years and fenced about five-six days a week. After graduation, I joined Salle Csiszar in Philadelphia and for the next 12-15 years averaged about 3-4 lessons a week from Maestro Csiszar.

    The competition at Salle Csiszar was outstanding and remarkably challenging. We averaged 12-18 A’s at any one time. At our club Maestro Csiszar trained dozens of Olympians, U.S. national championship teams, U.S. National team members, and numerous men and women U.S. national individual champions.
    Mike Morgan

  4. #4
    Senior Member glowstix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    calgary,ab,canada
    Posts
    2,453
    Quote Originally Posted by garyhayenga
    After I finally got some good coaching in 1987 I got a a B in 1989 and then the A in 1992. I had moved and it helped that I had fairly good people to practice with as well. I practiced 4-5 times a week for 2+ hours and took 3 lessons a week as well.
    thats awesome. coaching does make a difference. when i had my first one on one coaching session, i was made aware of some really small, subtle mistakes i was making and making the necessary changes made a lot of difference. its also easy to fall back into bad habits so regular lesssons, if possible, should be taken. 4-5 times per week is a lot. i get about 1.5 days per week for a total of 3-5 hours and i drive "mad" distances just to get there. hopefully my situation will change as i think the change would be necessary for ME to get to an A..

  5. #5
    Senior Member DangerMouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Eugene, OR
    Posts
    2,719
    9 years. Partially because I was in Wisconsin for 5 and there isn't much decent epee fencing there.

  6. #6
    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Pennsauken, NJ
    Posts
    12,629
    I started fencing (epee) in late 1994. Started sabre in early 1999. First earned my A (sabre) in summer, 2001.

    During the 2000-2001 season I took probably about 6-7 lessons from a local coach, mostly cleaning up some basic form (I've been otherwise self-taught in sabre).

    How tough was the road? Not really sure how to answer that.

    -B :)
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

  7. #7
    Senior Member glowstix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    calgary,ab,canada
    Posts
    2,453
    Quote Originally Posted by oiuyt
    I started fencing (epee) in late 1994. Started sabre in early 1999. First earned my A (sabre) in summer, 2001.

    During the 2000-2001 season I took probably about 6-7 lessons from a local coach, mostly cleaning up some basic form (I've been otherwise self-taught in sabre).

    How tough was the road? Not really sure how to answer that.

    -B
    well if you're saying from '99 to '01 then apparently it wasn't that tough then!!

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,186
    Again, I think that we have to point out that he is 12'9'' and he has arms that are around 10' long, and his epee skills payed off since he was a master at stop cut to wrist. I wish I was that tall.....
    -Kevin

  9. #9
    Senior Member MyrddinsPrecint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    6,287
    Blog Entries
    37
    Quote Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]
    I wish I was that tall.....
    yeah. because you're really f-ing short .

    *******.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,186
    Well....I used to be
    -Kevin

  11. #11
    Senior Member MyrddinsPrecint's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    6,287
    Blog Entries
    37
    i am the queen of threaddrift.

    Quote Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]
    Well....I used to be
    yes, but i still am.

    and my growth plates fused a few years ago.

    and i keep going to doctors ("my wrists have started hurting a lot recently, and both my sister and father had carpel tunnel.... " --"yeah, nothing's wrong with you. but your growth plates have fused!" --------------- "i've been having trouble with my ankles since i was 8. recently i've started just falling on my face while walking. is there anything i can do?...." --"yeah, nothing's wrong with you. but your growth plates have fused!") who keep telling me that my growth plates have fused, as if this great knowledge that i can now buy the clothing that i can expect to wear for the rest of my life is supposed to make up for regularly falling on my face when i fence.... or cross the street.... and there's nothting at all they can do or suggest.

    grrrrrrrrr.

  12. #12
    Senior Member SmokeyTheCat263's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    138
    About 8 years...I started when i was 11, but didn't get serious till I was maybe 13 or 14....and it's tough trying to get better in a fencing-desolate area. So in the past year-n-half, I would go to New York maybe once a month for some better fencing. Last summer I spent about a week in New York before summer nationals, fenced everyday, and then fenced at the Pomme De Terre. I got 3rd, so they gave me an A.

  13. #13
    Senior Member sreckiki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    far from home
    Posts
    341
    One month so the road was not too hard...

    But OK, that wasn't really fair since I've fenced for 3 years and half in my country before coming in US.

  14. #14
    Senior Member mike morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Ft. Myers, Florida
    Posts
    101
    In 1965 I earned my A rating in epee. In 1966 I attained the A rating in foil, and in 1967 got my A rating in sabre. In those years fencing three weapons was quite common, and indeed the “Individual 3-Weapon Competition” was a popular event.

    I began fencing in 1958, under the tutelage of the Hungarian fencing master Bela de Tuscan. I took about three lessons a week and worked very hard.

    In 1963 I commenced my collegiate fencing career at the University of Pennsylvania and was trained by Penn’s legendary Head Fencing Coach Maestro Lajos Csiszar. At that time the NCAA restrictions on practice were dramatically different than today. Besides studying I basically lived in the Penn fencing room.

    Maestro Csiszar’s private fencing Salle was housed in the Penn fencing room and Penn’s undergraduate fencers were allowed and encouraged to fence—and take lessons-- at Salle Csiszar as much as they wished.

    Also, most of the Philadelphia Division’s meets were held at Penn so in addition to my annual collegiate schedule I was also able to compete in almost weekly tournaments.

    During my collegiate career at Penn I took an average of 5 lessons a week for four years and fenced about five days a week not including collegiate meets. After graduation, I joined Salle Csiszar in Philadelphia and for the next 12-15 years averaged about 3-4 lessons a week from Maestro Csiszar.

    The competition at Salle Csiszar was outstanding and remarkably challenging. We averaged 16-20 A’s at any one time. At our club Maestro Csiszar trained dozens of Olympians, U.S. national championship teams, U.S. national team members, and numerous men and women U.S. national individual champions.

    I was most fortunate to have always had excellent coaching and the perfect environment in which to continually hone my competitive skills.
    Mike Morgan

  15. #15
    Senior Member Mr Epee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    lebenwelt
    Posts
    4,528
    This really isn't apples to apples, because it used to be much much harder to earn A & B ratings.

    When Gary H. says that he fenced 11 years and earned his A in the mid 90's it is a very better result than where the bar is set today.

    There was a time when it was fairly common for a B rated fencers to be ranked in the top 32 in Men's Epee. That is practically unheard of today. Also there were practically no Juniors who had earned A rankings in ME.

    This has all changed, for the better I think, but it does make comparisons difficult.

    National Finals and top 16's might be a better indicator. :-)
    Take your time. Read carefully.

  16. #16
    Senior Member SmokeyTheCat263's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Epee
    This really isn't apples to apples, because it used to be much much harder to earn A & B ratings.
    I agree. I remember when i first started doing circuit events, maybe the top 8 in cadet mens foil had Bs, and a couple in junior foil had As. It has gotten progressively easier over time to earn high ratings. My most recent (and last) junior tourney, which was this JOs had maybe 20 or so As in junior foil, and 40 or so B's. Crazy.

  17. #17
    Senior Member veeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The valley of the -hot- sun, NorCal
    Posts
    3,185
    True, but I think that at least in the case of men's epee, the level of fencing in the US has dramatically improved in the past years.

    While I wasn't fencing in the US in the early 90s, I have seen fencers who were top level US fencers in the early 90s, and I have seen the top level US fencers of today, and it's not really fair to compare the 2. Perhaps it was harder to get an A before, but in terms of abilities and work involved, I would say that getting in the top 32 before was relatively easy compared to today.

    Further, in the 4 1/2 years I fenced in the US, I must say I saw the improvement continue, and people who used to be top dog nationally have a harder time to compete.

    So I wouldn't say that a person who earned their A first in the 90s would be significantly better than a person who earned their A today. In fact, I think that in most cases, the 90s A would receive a beating from the 2000s A.

    To answer the original question, as for Sreckiki, it didn't take me long to earn my A. But I had been fencing for a while.
    • Epee is the Louis Vuitton bag of fencing: only the best can get it, and the rest of the masses must content themselves with cheap knockoffs (sabre, foil)
    • To not recognize the power of the French grip is to be in denial

  18. #18
    Senior Member Insipiens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    596
    So, for a foreigner, what do you have to do to earn an A rating (or a B for that matter) and why is it now easier?
    I caught this morning morning’s minion, king-
    dom of daylight’s dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
    Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
    High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
    In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
    As a skate’s heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
    Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
    Stirred for a bird,—the achieve of; the mastery of the thing!

  19. #19
    Senior Member glowstix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    calgary,ab,canada
    Posts
    2,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Insipiens
    So, for a foreigner, what do you have to do to earn an A rating (or a B for that matter) and why is it now easier?
    http://www.usfencing.org/Documents/R...sMan/Class.asp

    i suppose its now easier because there are more rated fencers around so its easier to find high rated events thus giving more opportunity to get a rating. also, back then, the rating system was cutoff at C, now there's D's and E's so more total rated fencers. there are probably other reasons...

  20. #20
    Senior Member mike morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Ft. Myers, Florida
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Epee
    This really isn't apples to apples, because it used to be much much harder to earn A & B ratings.

    When Gary H. says that he fenced 11 years and earned his A in the mid 90's it is a very better result than where the bar is set today.

    There was a time when it was fairly common for a B rated fencers to be ranked in the top 32 in Men's Epee. That is practically unheard of today. Also there were practically no Juniors who had earned A rankings in ME.

    This has all changed, for the better I think, but it does make comparisons difficult.

    National Finals and top 16's might be a better indicator. :-)
    Your point is well taken. It is very hard to compare the relative ‘worth’ or significance of ratings over the decades. In the (distant) past—50’s, 60’s 70’s-- there were no youth events, almost no junior events, and no Division I-A, II or III categories. And there were no ratings below C. All National Championships were what we now term Division I.

    But I think today’s classification categories are much better suited to our sport’s burgeoning growth and popularity.

    As for my ancient history, in 1965 I earned my A rating in epee. In the following four years I subsequently earned my A in sabre, and A in foil. At that time fencing three weapons was quite common, and indeed the “Individual 3-Weapon Competition” had been a popular divisional event, and for many, many years was an integral part of the US National Championships.

    I started fencing in 1958, under the tutelage of the Hungarian fencing master Bela de Tuscan. I took about three lessons a week and worked very hard.

    In 1963 I began my collegiate fencing career at the University of Pennsylvania and was trained by Penn’s legendary Hungarian Head Fencing Coach, Maestro Lajos Csiszar. At that time the NCAA restrictions on practice were dramatically different than today. Besides studying I basically lived in the Penn fencing room.

    Maestro Csiszar’s private fencing Salle was housed in the Penn fencing room and Penn’s undergraduate fencers were allowed and encouraged to fence--and take free private lessons -- at Salle Csiszar as much as they wished.

    Also, most of the Philadelphia Division’s meets were held at Penn so in addition to my annual collegiate schedule I was also able to compete in almost weekly tournaments.

    During my collegiate career at Penn I took an average of 5 lessons a week for four years and fenced about five days a week not including collegiate meets. After graduation, I joined Salle Csiszar in Philadelphia and for the next 15 years averaged about 3-4 lessons a week from Maestro Csiszar.

    The competition at Salle Csiszar was outstanding and remarkably challenging. Our Salle averaged 16-20 A’s at any one time. At our club Maestro Csiszar trained dozens of Olympians, U.S. national championship teams, U.S. national team members, and numerous men and women U.S. national individual champions.

    I was very fortunate to have always had excellent coaching and the perfect environment in which to continually hone my competitive skills.
    Mike Morgan

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Fencing FAQ (part 1)
    By Morgan Burke in forum Discussion Archive
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-26-2005, 03:00 AM
  2. Fencing FAQ (part 1)
    By Morgan Burke in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-10-2003, 10:33 AM
  3. Fencing FAQ (part 1)
    By Morgan Burke in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-10-2003, 10:31 AM
  4. Triple A rated fencers
    By thebigriddle in forum Discussion Archive
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: 04-02-2002, 11:50 PM
  5. Northern Colorado Fencers Pre National Camp
    By Andrea Lagan in forum Discussion Archive
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-11-2001, 05:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26