Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Moses · 03-05-2005, 01:35 AM

I have a question concerning the PBT colored lame's. All their colored lame's are advertised as "Non-washable" (except for the Ice Blue one). Why is this so? Is it because they're copper (I've been told copper lame's can be washed occasionally), or is it because of the coloring of the lame'? Any other reasons why PBT's lame's might be called "non-washable"?

As always, thank you very much. You guys and gals have always been very helpful and expedient.

-Da Mose

CvilleFencer · 03-05-2005, 06:44 AM

The differance is in how they are made and what they are made of. The ice blue lame is the only colored one that is INOX stainless steel. It has a much denser weave of metalic threads than the non-inox ones and is more resistant to corrosion and such. You can still handwash a non-INOX lame just not as many times over its life as you can an INOX one. Some manufactuerers even have lames that you can toss in the washer, but I do not know if the PBT inox one is of this type.

The non-inox PBT lames are not copper IIRC, but are different lame material that is not as dense or robust as the INOX ones. They are a "bargain" line for PBT, and outside of the US they are just that, a bargain at around $45 Euros, or about $60 US. However at PBT USA's prices you would be much better off just buying a JL from the fencing post for around $65 dollars as they are pretty much the same material. Another good option is to get a good Uhlmann, Leon Paul or Triplette lame. You can get an Uhlmann lame from the Fencing post that is Inox stainless steel and one of the best lames on the market for about $20 dollars more than what PBT USA charges for a budget lame, and they also come in colors.

smeric28 · 03-06-2005, 06:11 PM

i have a colored(shiny green) lame from triplette made from nickel alloy i can wash anytime i want. sorry i cannot comment on the lames you were talking about nobody in my club ownes one. it may be that they die the lames after they are completed and the colors are not compeletly "color fast". anyways that's my 2 bits

Moses · 03-06-2005, 06:17 PM

Thankles for all the info. I've decided to go with the blue Uhlmann. I can sleep better knowing I can wash my lame' whenever I feel it needs to be cleaned.

Graci!

-Da Mose

LUDICROUS · 03-07-2005, 12:51 AM

Gah, I hate that blue. It's allover my area as 2 of the larger schools that have fencing clubs in my city both have blue as a school colour. So consequently plenty of my fencing buddies use blue lames

Allstar blue lames btw, but I don't think theres any difference between uhlmann blue and allstar blue, unless the uhlmann "blue" is not by definition a coloured lame like the allstar one.

Moses · 03-07-2005, 11:40 AM

Hrm, I understand your frustration. It is rather torturous to have to see the same color all the time...

Any alternatives would be appreciated, although I'm probably going to make the order some time today, anyway. I hate how the Uhlmann zipper flap fops over, anyway.

-Da Mose

CvilleFencer · 03-07-2005, 11:52 AM

Hey Moses, if you are ordering straight from Germany you can go through Fechtsport Lagenkampf and get the Allstar colored lames that come in blue, red and a yellowish gold that is not as bad as it sounds. They are happy to take US orders and it will be about the same or a little bit cheaper than going through a US vendor. Once they ship it usually only takes about 10-14 days to arrive, even using the normal mail. You can look at the differant color Allstar lames here: https://www.allstar.de/modules.php?o...th=5_520_52010 and order through Lagenkampf here: http://www.fechtsport-langenkamp.de/html_en/start.htm

At least you have some alternatives. Allstar will not sell direct to the US as Blade is their "official" US rep, but Lagenkampf is happy to do so. Hope that helps!

Moses · 03-07-2005, 12:41 PM

Since Uhlmann and Allstar are the "same", does that mean Allstar lame's have the same flap-over problem?

-Da Question-matic2005

CvilleFencer · 03-07-2005, 12:50 PM

I have never really noticed a flap over problem, but if there is one that was not just a one batch incident, then yes they still would. Most of the flaps that do not like to stay closed I have seen usually result from the way the lame is stored or the fit, rather than the way the lame is made in and of itself. If you do have this problem (I had it with my first lame, which was a Cartel I think, before I knew how to take proper care of them) you can fix it by taking a couple of small, thin peices of 3M industrial strength self adhesive velcro and just making one or two velcro tabs for the lame on the outside of the zipper track. It also works well if you have a zipper that does not like to stay up. That will solve the problem in a very easy and cheap way.

oiuyt · 03-07-2005, 02:47 PM

I can attest from fairly extensive refereeing experience that the Uhlmann lamés are certainly prone to problems with the zipper flaps flopping open. I don't know what aspect of the design causes it, whether the flap is too small to hold itself shut, whether the manner of stiching tends to pull it open, or whatever other theories you might be able to come up with, but it's fairly consistent, and certainly not limited to a "single batch".

For what it's worth, my lamés are Uhlmann (and have the flap flop problem (actually I'm not sure if my foil lame does, I haven't used it recently)). Not a big issue in sabre.... :)

-B :)

Purple Fencer · 03-07-2005, 02:49 PM

Just please....no one buy one of those tye-dyed lames Blade sells! EWWWWWW

oiuyt · 03-08-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Just please....no one buy one of those tye-dyed lames Blade sells! EWWWWWW

You mean the ones that are illegal at national competitions? :)

-B :)

Ryne · 03-08-2005, 12:40 PM

Didnt someone come out with a Black Lame?

Man, I want one of those...

DHCJr · 03-08-2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

You mean the ones that are illegal at national competitions?

-B

You and I might know they are illegal, but the vendor is saying otherwise and they have been passed at some NAC's. The black ones would be illegal also.

Ryne · 03-08-2005, 01:36 PM

I wouldn't wear a black lame at competition... to easy a target... I have a white one for competition.

Welted 24/7 · 03-08-2005, 02:26 PM

"Too easy a target"? Give me a break...your chest is still your chest regardless of what color is on it. That crap doesn't fly in fencing.

achilleus · 03-08-2005, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welted 24/7

"Too easy a target"? Give me a break...your chest is still your chest regardless of what color is on it. That crap doesn't fly in fencing.

You ever fence epee against someone wearing bright red shoes? Or with a bright red glove? Or how about that really popular glove with the black thumb?

You ever talk to foil refs about fencers with bright tip tape, or bright colors on their weapon arm?

Color affects perception.

Moses · 03-08-2005, 03:21 PM

GAH!!!!!!!

Fencing Post doesn't have any blue Uhlmann's in my size

The shipping charges from langenkamp are too meaty for my tastes...

Thanks for the help though, it seems I'll have to wait about 6 weeks before I get my lame'. I suppose I'll have to borrow somebody's next saturday

Thanks again

-Da Mose

P.S. Anyone know of other places where I can get uhlmann/allstar color lame's? I don't see any options on the Blade website...

mrbiggs · 03-08-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

You and I might know they are illegal, but the vendor is saying otherwise and they have been passed at some NAC's. The black ones would be illegal also.

Out of curiosity, why would the black ones be illegal? It's not a light color, but the green ones are pretty dark as well.

Welted 24/7 · 03-08-2005, 04:58 PM

Perception? Sure...but the way he's phrasing it, it's like he thinks a different color is going to make the opponent not see his target, like someone playing paintball who wears camoflauge. Besides that, with weapons that need lames, it's not like you don't know where to hit anyway.