Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

smeric28 · 03-08-2005, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welted 24/7

Perception? Sure...but the way he's phrasing it, it's like he thinks a different color is going to make the opponent not see his target, like someone playing paintball who wears camoflauge. Besides that, with weapons that need lames, it's not like you don't know where to hit anyway.

Welted is right lame color dosn't matter. neon tip tape does make a difference though, it makes it soooo much easier to see point movement especially under florecent lighting. i think all my opponents should use it.

BTW: aside from the light color rule why would black or tiedye lames be illegal?

Welted 24/7 · 03-08-2005, 06:14 PM

Might have something to do with not being able to see the name on the back of the lame, maybe?

achilleus · 03-08-2005, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welted 24/7

Perception? Sure...but the way he's phrasing it, it's like he thinks a different color is going to make the opponent not see his target, like someone playing paintball who wears camoflauge. Besides that, with weapons that need lames, it's not like you don't know where to hit anyway.

Yeah, but the color affects the depth perception.

I don't think it's a big difference (nor do I care what color my lame is), but it does make a difference...

DHCJr · 03-08-2005, 07:54 PM

All of this comes from the last sentence of M.25.3.

The tie die is illegal because it is not a SINGLE color. Yes, SOME of the Green, Blue, Red, etc. are illegal. But there are light Green, light Blue, and light Red, but has anyone heard of a light Black. If they said light Grey, all right.

P.S. there are Reds, that could be considered light and not be Pink. The rule is basically for the legibility of the lettering on the lame or jacket.

Moses · 03-08-2005, 10:11 PM

Cville,

Ok, I may be desperate enough to purchase from a European distributor (although the thought of having my order lost over the Atlantic terrifies me). You said that Langenkamp tends to mail within 10-14 of processing. In your experience, how long do they take to process? Do they have good, English-speaking customer service (unfortunately Deutsche was never offered at my school

) at all? Is there any fit/quality difference between Allstar and Uhlmann lame's?

Thanks for answering all my questions. You have been a huge help

-Da Mose

P.S. Your private message box is full

P.P.S. Yes, I realize I'm very smiley-happy

oiuyt · 03-08-2005, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

You and I might know they are illegal, but the vendor is saying otherwise and they have been passed at some NAC's. The black ones would be illegal also.

I realize all of these points. I also have yet to have one appear on one of my strips (or rather on one of the fencers on one of my strips) (I've only seen them in foil lames, and I primarily ref sabre at the national level, which might have something to do with it, although they are ugly enough to be fairly rare even in foil) so have yet to award a card for one of them.

I'd just hate to have spent $80 (or whatever they cost) on a lame, another $20-25 on stencilling, and then have my lame rejected before my first bout for being illegal. And then have to try to argue with a vendor who's unreasonably assured me that my lame is legal and tries to justify keeping my money on the grounds that the referee must be wrong.

At least if the armorers fail the lame it'll save the poor fencer a yellow card, even if it doesn't end up saving him/her any money.

If mentioning their lack of legality here helps convince even one taste deprived fencer not to waste his/her money then it's worth the post. :)

-B :)

DHCJr · 03-08-2005, 11:47 PM

I agree whole-heartedly. I was not upset with you. I was mostly venting on the fencers who come up and say 'It passed at so-and-so tournament'.

For example, I had a fencer get upset, when I failed a mask. I didn't even punch it. It had a broken wire, dead center. He told me, it just passed at J.O.'s. I told him, I didn't care, he was not going to use it here.

Your post gave me the oportunity, to state to all those out there who have posted pictures of obviously illegal equipment and because it was passed at a tournament, it is now legal. Advice, buy that at your own risk and if it is failed don't complain and know the rules.

Oiuyt, I thought yours was a good post, I just needed a release.

Purple Fencer · 03-09-2005, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I agree whole-heartedly. I was not upset with you. I was mostly venting on the fencers who come up and say 'It passed at so-and-so tournament'.

For example, I had a fencer get upset, when I failed a mask. I didn't even punch it. It had a broken wire, dead center. He told me, it just passed at J.O.'s. I told him, I didn't care, he was not going to use it here.

Heh....and his parents haven't yet called me for a new one...I agree, tho...but it wasn't until you pointed it out that I saw the break myself...'course, it WAS at the front! Yikes!

Quote:

Oiuyt, I thought yours was a good post, I just needed a release.

Was going to say something about beverages....decided not to!

smeric28 · 03-09-2005, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

All of this comes from the last sentence of M.25.3.

The tie die is illegal because it is not a SINGLE color. Yes, SOME of the Green, Blue, Red, etc. are illegal. But there are light Green, light Blue, and light Red, but has anyone heard of a light Black. If they said light Grey, all right.

P.S. there are Reds, that could be considered light and not be Pink. The rule is basically for the legibility of the lettering on the lame or jacket.

so the color dosen't nessisarily need to be pastel just light enough to easily read the letters. i'm just asking because i have a green lame from triplette, i've never had a problem but i want to know if i might

Mauler · 03-09-2005, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

For example, I had a fencer get upset, when I failed a mask. I didn't even punch it. It had a broken wire, dead center. He told me, it just passed at J.O.'s. I told him, I didn't care, he was not going to use it here.

It pays for the professionals and volunteer staff (coaches, referees, armourers, etc) to have a healthy dose of skepticism about each other's work in the spirit of mutual support. We all have our slow days, and we should be able to count on each other to correct our errors. Kudos for you for letting him know that what matters is right then and right there in front of you and your standard, not what allegedly (or in fact) took place elsewhere.

More than a few times, unfortunately, I've rejected equipment on the strip as a referee during the check-ins despite the presence of inspection mark due to a gross fault in the equipment. Only once in a national level event. More so in the regional tournaments with apprentice armourers helping out. Despite the best intentions, out of hundreds of masks, lames and body cords that go through the check, there's bound to be some that do not receive the same amount of necessary attention.

DHCJr · 03-09-2005, 12:19 PM

Mauler, I couldn't agree more. You can see some of this in other threads. I have had assistent Armorers pass mask that shouldn't have and caught them, sometimes on the strip. How many did I not catch? I have nearly 100 masks checked at local tournaments, I also help organize the tournament. Sometimes others help and they do not have my eye. Or like this weekend, a fencer came with their competition mask, that was Passed and used at J.O.'s., a broken wire dead center.

We are in this together, especially in the U.S. If someone ever gets seriously hurt, there will be some lawyers who will jump in to sue every person and orginization involved, even remotely.

Inquartata · 03-09-2005, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I just needed a release.

Very well. Tiny little mask-cord tabs on Uhlmann sabre lames. Discuss.

Purple Fencer · 03-09-2005, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Very well. Tiny little mask-cord tabs on Uhlmann sabre lames. Discuss.

You are sooooo bad, Inq!! That's one of Don's pet peeves!

How about Prieur 2 pin body cords that are often illegal as they emerge from the factory?? (g'head...ask why...now that I know myself!)

smeric28 · 03-09-2005, 11:10 PM

pk purple fencer why are preiur body cords illegal.

Purple Fencer · 03-10-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeric28

pk purple fencer why are preiur body cords illegal.

This in only for foil/sabre...it's in the A line....there must be 40 cm of FREE line....not the overall length of the A line, but 40 cm free from the B line.

Most of the time they come from the factory with maybe 10 cm free. It looks like they cut the three-line cord to length, then on separated the A line enough to do the soldering work on the clip.

Easy fix, tho...just pull the A line apart from the B a ways....almost to the three-prong plug, and voila....instant passage!

I've never seen this problem on an Uhlmann or Leon Paul cord...just on the Prieurs.

DHCJr · 03-10-2005, 12:28 AM

You don't have to go quite that far. 40cm ~ 10". The Negrinni has the same problem, but they did Prieur even better. They put on a heat shrink tubing. It is very difficult to move, but it can be done. It is easier to cut it off to get the free length. The problem is, I believe they put it there on purpose, so the wires don't seperate all the way down to the connector.

Purple Fencer · 03-10-2005, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHCJr

You don't have to go quite that far. 40cm ~ 10". The Negrinni has the same problem, but they did Prieur even better. They put on a heat shrink tubing. It is very difficult to move, but it can be done. It is easier to cut it off to get the free length. The problem is, I believe they put it there on purpose, so the wires don't seperate all the way down to the connector.

Why do that?? Because the 3 prong connectors are soldered....so there a little bit of strain relief?

As for separating all the way...I was thinking of planning for the future incase you have an A line break and have to shorten the line & resolder the clip...if it;s already separated all the way, you don;t have to worry about that 40cm rule.

Inquartata · 03-10-2005, 03:18 PM

My favorite manufacturer blunder was the Triplette lames with the brand tags sewn on over the lame material...

Purple Fencer · 03-10-2005, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

My favorite manufacturer blunder was the Triplette lames with the brand tags sewn on over the lame material...

oh.....oh my...and Walter didn't catch it??

DHCJr · 03-10-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inquartata

My favorite manufacturer blunder was the Triplette lames with the brand tags sewn on over the lame material...

Don't get on Walter. For once he was following the leader. The Official Fencing Equipment Supplier and still the Official Fencing Equipment Supplier did it first. If you want to find out who is the Official Fencing Equipment Supplier and organizers for World Championships are Required to put up their banner, check the FIE operations manual. I give you a hint, they have a country's name as part of their name.