A good, working definition of "pastel?"

[Victor]

What's a good way to gauge the pastel-ness of a color? Can you think of a method that can be applied to testing colors across several different fabrics under different lighting conditions?

I ask because fencers are going to start pushing the limits of self-expression for their jackets, and sooner or later a ref is going to make a judgment call that's going to require a comparison against criteria.

So ... when does "red" become "pink?"

[ReverseLunge]

I congratulate you fro coming out of the closet.

[Victor]

I congratulate you fro coming out of the closet.

And I thank you for being the first to greet me with open arms.

[achilleus]

Take a cool, vibrant color like red. Wash out all the vibrancy and make it fade till it looks really bad and voila! You have a pastel.

Or you can just wash your uniform with an Allstar glove...

[Victor]

Uh-huh.

Still waiting on the uber-scientific approach, fellas. I figured a brainy group like this would have a solid idea or two.

[achilleus]

Uh-huh.

Still waiting on the uber-scientific approach, fellas. I figured a brainy group like this would have a solid idea or two.

OK, here's the dictionary definition:

4 : any of various pale or light colors

Now, really does it matter? I mean, the italians were wearing blue uniforms at FIE events a while back. Not pastel, but royal blue. The torso was either white of covered by lame so, what does it matter?

Trillini.

Cuomo.

Milanoli.

[Victor]

Now, really does it matter?

It matters the same as anything else -- it only matters when it needs to, and as I proposed earlier that's going to be when a ref decides someone's "blue" is actually too dark to be called pastel.

I thought it was an interesting puzzle question. If you don't think it's worth serious consideration, then I beseech you to not revisit this thread no more, sirrah.

[ReverseLunge]

It's bad enough that people think fencing is queer and now you want to come out in a pink uniform.

[Victor]

It's bad enough that people think fencing is queer and now you want to come out in a pink uniform.

It's too bad people think your fencing is queer. I have yet to experience that problem.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

How to tell if it is "pastel"

Create a gradient that goes from white to red, anything on the white side of the gradient is pastel, the colors on the red side are not pastel. This is the best answer I can think of.

[downunder]

Now, really does it matter? I mean, the italians were wearing blue uniforms at FIE events a while back. Not pastel, but royal blue. The torso was either white of covered by lame so, what does it matter?
[/URL]

pastel colour is a USFA term and rule, it is not in the official FIE english (or french) rules

[Victor]

Alright, then, you niff-snodding whazzles (a term I just made up; copyright pending), I'll talk myself through it...

First, what is pastel?

By some definitions, pastel is a light color, or a color blended with white to lighten its value. In the pastel art technique, that effect refers to light being reflected from the surface of the pigment and therefore providing a bright, but light, color value.

That would seem to suggest we need a method to test the amount of light being reflected from a particular hue within a certain range of values, which would be described as "pastel."

So I still need a knowledge of light testers. Blast it.

[Tydive]

What's a good way to gauge the pastel-ness of a color? Can you think of a method that can be applied to testing colors across several different fabrics under different lighting conditions?

I ask because fencers are going to start pushing the limits of self-expression for their jackets, and sooner or later a ref is going to make a judgment call that's going to require a comparison against criteria.

So ... when does "red" become "pink?"

First off Achilleus gave you a good definition of Pastel. If you want to see specific
pastel color chart that will give you specific pastel colors to campare. In short you are asking the wrong question. Pastel is subjective in that it is a comparative term between darker and lighter shades of color(s). The part I don't understand is why you care. Is there some rule saying no pastel's on uniforms?

[Victor]

First off Achilleus gave you a good definition of Pastel. ...

No doubt. But nothing that can be used for a pastel test. And the delightful color chart you provided is only good for Internet coding. I'mmmmm not so sure it would be useful at a competition. ("Hey, Jonesy, take this here uniform over to the Internet and compare it on your computer screen...")

I'm simply posing the problem of how one tests to determine if a hue is "pastel" or not. Because if I wanted a reddish jacket, for example, I'd want to know exactly how red it could be before the ref throws a fit.

Based on this chart and similar charts found online, http://bicgraphic.com/images/gifs/colorwheel.gif , it would seem that a 70-30 ratio of white-to-base hue composition would be safely in the "pastel" range; 50 percent is too dark and the ref could claim the jacket is nonconforming.

How does one test for that?

[Tydive]

How does one test for that?

Use a color printer, print out the pastels, hold them side by side with your sample. Hope that you are not dealing with a color blind judge.

[jBirch]

All ref's are red/green colour blind at least.

Here's a solution, in RGB pixel space, (255,255,255) is white and (0,0,0) is black. Pastels (as sampled from a FIE approved digital camera) must have an aggregate score greater then 500.

[Thorin]

you mean like:

255 + 0 + 0 = 255, so it's a pastel? I don't think that works.

But along those lines, you could define pastel as anything with more than %50 towards white on the 0-255 scale.

So any color with all components above 128, therefore the closest you could get to red would be: 255,128,128

[jBirch]

Thorin,

No, I meant aggregate score so 255 + 245 + 0 = 500 and any combination that gets close to that. Besides, 500 was just a number I pulled out of my butt as an example. Your solution sounds better but you'd probably need to combine it with Victor's 70% rule so every component would have to be greater then 178.

[Thorin]

Man, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that first part! I think I read "less than" instead of "greater than" Sorry 'about that.

[DHCJr]

pastel colour is a USFA term and rule, it is not in the official FIE english (or french) rules

It was a poor choice of words, but what would a good, working definition of "light"? Basically that is the same question as you can see from the definition of pastel given.

The pictures given have no effect to the questions as the colors are on the leg. The ones on the jacket are illegal, even if they were considered light or pastel. See M.25.3, since the 'light' rule is only on the torso (I am using the French FIE rules) and they must be a solid color.

Yes they seem to ignored the rule for this competiton.