Advice

[telkanuru]

I know I posted this to my journal, and thanks to those who gave help there, but I'd like more opinions.

People who ask for advice tend to get the answer "Well, I really need to see what you do". So...

http://people.umass.edu/lgrigoli/Me%20at%20MIT%20(NE%20'05)1.mpg is me fencing at New Englands a few weeks ago. I'm 'Grigoli', and am closest to the camera in all but one. I additionally realize the footage isn't the best, but I'll take any help I can get, especially relating to my behavior and the 5 touche nature of the bouts. Thanks in advance.

EDIT: for some reason, it dosn't want to convert the URL to a hyperlink, so copy-paste, I guess?

EDIT2: As mention below file is ~80MB

[wpotere]

Warning, this is a LARGE file....

P.S. Waiting for the download...

[wpotere]

As I am only a newbie to the sport I am hardly one to give advice, but I did notice something during your bouts.

Whenever you start bouncing your tip (quite wildly from time to time) I noticed that you opened yourself up for an attack and were usually scored on. If you are going to circle your blade, keep that point on target and tight. You also tend to lift it from time to time and were attacked during those times. If you were try to get a reaction from your opponent, you did and the outcome was ususally not good.

Overall, you look pretty solid. I'm certain that some of the more expierenced folks can give you better information. However, I did want to thank you for sharing that footage. I learn well from watching others and I am certain that with the remarks here there is going to be something to gain from this thread.

[Alain]

Hi,

Just watched the vid through once - very good - so just a couple of pointers...

First off, this may sound really trivial, but as a matter of safety it may be worth getting a new jacket and/or breeches - there really needs to be an overlap between the two, otherwise you could get really hurt!

Concerning your en guarde position, your shoulder looks a little too tense, and your arm is extended too far. Try to keep your arm back - there should be about enough space to put a fist between your elbow and the rest of your body. Keeping your arm out too far will not only make it tired, but also detract from the effectiveness of your preparations.

One other thing with your en guarde, try to keep your point a little further out to the side. Against a more experienced fencer, if you keep your point pointing at them, then it gives them the opportunity to play with your blade; take it away from them, and you give them fewer options.

In general, your footwork itself is pretty good, although perhaps a little too static. Remember that distance is the best defense, keep on your toes.

One thing you may also like to think about is your position on the piste. Looking at the video, you seem more comfortable in defense than attack; so it may be worth positioning yourself on the piste accordingly - keep on the left when fencing a right-hander, and on the right when fencing a leftie (forcing them off the piste when they flêche).

A lot of times when you hit, your hand was nice and high. Everytime you drop your hand, your shoulder also tends to drop and also your chances of scoring a single hit... keep your hand up.

There was nothing bad, really, just a few simple things that can make a difference. Lastly, another thing I think is important, is perhaps you should look more to making hits with second intention rather than just straightforward phases... get used to remising/redoubling, to counter-attacking and then parrying automitically.

I hope this helps, best of luck

[DangerMouse]

The shot you hit most consistantly was a pick under the wrist. You then kept taking this shot expecting to hit it. Instead use it to set up other actions. Once you hit it once, maybe take the same shot expecting to finish to the foot. Then under wrist, foot, body. Then under wrist pull back and counter or pary riposte.

Basically, if you keep trying to hit the same move, your opponent will expect it and hit you on it. Like at the end of the video, when you get hit with a fleche into your attempted wrist pick. Take the shot, but expect to make another action.

[achilleus]

I watched a couple of touches since I don't have much time at the moment...

1) Your steps are too big.

2) Sit lower.

3) Faster back leg. Your front foot is planted and your back leg is still in the air during your advances.

4) Sit on your back hip.

5) Don't rock your upper body so much

[MyrddinsPrecint]

this file has not worked at any point when i've tried to dl it.

i don't get it, my school connects to the internet through your school. so dls from umass (ie- direct connects on aim) are usually really fast. but........ i can't get the stupid file.


i quit. i'll watch it some time i happen to be in your room.

...........after club nationals.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Alain

One other thing with your en guarde, try to keep your point a little further out to the side. Against a more experienced fencer, if you keep your point pointing at them, then it gives them the opportunity to play with your blade; take it away from them, and you give them fewer options.

Thanks for the comments, all. I'll start working immidiately. Just one thing on the above. I was instructed to keep my point centered on my opponent and my arm farther out into six than would seem, so that all attacks are angulated. It is actually slightly easier to disegage from this position, too. I think this is just a question of coaching style, but I could be wrong. Again, thanks for the help.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Alain

First off, this may sound really trivial, but as a matter of safety it may be worth getting a new jacket and/or breeches - there really needs to be an overlap between the two, otherwise you could get really hurt!

Oh, this too

It's on my list of things to do when I have money. I thought I had finished growing (at 18), so I invested in FIE gear. Over the summer, though, I grew. Arg!

[Schiavona]

On speeding up your back leg/foot. When you have time to work on this, try putting your back foot down at the same time your front toes hit the ground (assuming that you put heel down first then toes). Start slooow, work on getting the timing to be a habit, then you don't have to think about it!

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Schiavona

On speeding up your back leg/foot. When you have time to work on this, try putting your back foot down at the same time your front toes hit the ground (assuming that you put heel down first then toes). Start slooow, work on getting the timing to be a habit, then you don't have to think about it!

Yeah, the coach I go to over breaks teaches things 'stupid slow', too. The coach for my college team teaches a 2-part advance, where the front foot should land as a preperation/distance testing method. I'm experimenting with bouncing, keeping the front foot more or less in place while moving the back foot and changing where I plant it for advances and lunges to steal distance. I need to keep the back foot on the floor for lunges, though...

Thanks!

[dunastor]

From what I've seen, in my opinion you're a little bit too passive (note that I'm a sabre fencer, so that shouldn't be such a surprise....)
You react to actions of your opponents, but you initiate very little yourself. Maybe that the way you feel comfortable on the strip, as has been said, but I think it would be more rewarding to make more second intention actions, to predictively draw actions from your opponent. Also, I see at most 1 remise when an action misses. I would suggest to go for the kill as long as there hasn't been called halt. A bit lighter on your feet, as has been said previously too, might help also...

hope this helps

[Gav]

Originally Posted by achilleus

I watched a couple of touches since I don't have much time at the moment...

1) Your steps are too big.

2) Sit lower.

3) Faster back leg. Your front foot is planted and your back leg is still in the air during your advances.

4) Sit on your back hip.

5) Don't rock your upper body so much

These are all things that I noticed. Although I wouldn't sit on your back leg - it leaves you unbalanced should you need to run away.

I would alter your on-guard in the following way.

Deepen your stance: bend those knees. This will help with points 1,2, 3, 4 and 5. Instead of sitting on your back leg, try and keep your weight balanced between your legs; imagine a plumb line passing down between your ankles from your spine. Build up the stamina, and flexibility in your legs; this will help with your body movement [wobble?]. Once you have your on guard stable, movement should be a doddle.

Now for the hard bit - practise your foot work.

The traditional approach to steps is the 1-2-3-4 method (i.e. you should hear a 1-2-3-4 when you make a step). There is nothing intrinsically wrong with this - it's just a bit slow. To make your movement dynamic try aiming for a more 1-2 movement. So: front heel lands, in the time it takes for that foot to pivot flat, bring up your back foot and plant it. Some people I've known like to place their back foot from the ball to heel, others just place it flat. At the end of the step, your on-guard should still be deep and balanced. For backward steps reverse previous.



Oh, and before I forget, you didn't look like how I imagined you. I thought you were taller.

[oiuyt]

Show Taro the video and go over it with him sometime when you're both in the same room. While he's obviously familiar with your fencing, I've found that it can be useful for coach and student to watch footage together (here at Temple we tape pretty much every competition and review most of them). Sometimes more useful than others, but what can you do?

Given that any modifications that you make are going to have to fit into the system that you and he are developing for your fencing, it just makes sense to start with that and then add comments from the greater fencing community.

Of course perhaps you've already done that step... :)

-B :)

[Rodeo79]

Keep your point on your opposition... You can't hit if you point is else where... Also if you put your point else where it makes you have to over compensate to get your blade in position making for big actions that are easy to get around...

Your arm starts out in good epee position, but you pull your arm in your attacks, you attack like you are fencing foil. Be more patient open distance, unless you are going to touch.

Keep you weight balanced between your feet, as soon as you get close you put all your weight on your front foot, then you don't move your front foot, and your back foot bounces around... If someone goes for your toe you're gonna end up on your face, or with a touch against, or both....

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by Gav

Once you have your on guard stable, movement should be a doddle.

Example #387 of separated by a common language....

A "doddle"?

-B :)

[keith]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Example #387 of separated by a common language....

A "doddle"?

-B

as easy as falling of a log.

[garyhayenga]

Some comments on the comments:

"Whenever you start bouncing your tip (quite wildly from time to time) I noticed that you opened yourself up for an attack and were usually scored on. If you are going to circle your blade, keep that point on target and tight. You also tend to lift it from time to time and were attacked during those times. If you were try to get a reaction from your opponent, you did and the outcome was ususally not good."

This is good advice.

"Concerning your en guarde position, your shoulder looks a little too tense, and your arm is extended too far. Try to keep your arm back - there should be about enough space to put a fist between your elbow and the rest of your body. Keeping your arm out too far will not only make it tired, but also detract from the effectiveness of your preparations."

Your en garde position is fine if your general strategy is second-intention and counter-time. The elbow a fist from the body is an attacking en garde.

"In general, your footwork itself is pretty good, although perhaps a little too static. Remember that distance is the best defense, keep on your toes."

*Much* too static.

"A lot of times when you hit, your hand was nice and high. Everytime you drop your hand, your shoulder also tends to drop and also your chances of scoring a single hit... keep your hand up."

Also good advice. Not only does this lower your chances of scoring but it increases your chances of getting hit.

"Lastly, another thing I think is important, is perhaps you should look more to making hits with second intention rather than just straightforward phases... get used to remising/redoubling, to counter-attacking and then parrying automitically."

Perhaps the most important thing, with the exception of automatic-parrying. Don't automatic-anything, but you are keeping a second-intention en garde and are clearly more comfortable when your opponent is attacking you. Therefore you need to provoke this.

"Take the shot, but expect to make another action."

Extremely important in epee. Wrist picks should *never* be expected to hit, or expected to be a primary source of touches. If it hits great, but it's primary value should be forcing the opponent to react, or refuse to react, so that the follow-up has a good chance to hit. In higher-level epee, where everyone can guard their wrist, 80% of touches scored are to the body/shoulder.

"Faster back leg. Your front foot is planted and your back leg is still in the air during your advances."

Most of the time in this video this is true. You have brief stretches where you do good quick footwork, but this is almost exclusively when your opponent is attacking you. All of your prepatory footwork is front foot then back foot. Then back foot then front foot. Unless you are making a false-advance or an appel this is very bad. For standard footwork, an advance, when your front foot lands your back foot should already be halfway (or more) done instead of still on the ground.

"On speeding up your back leg/foot. When you have time to work on this, try putting your back foot down at the same time your front toes hit the ground (assuming that you put heel down first then toes)."

This is the correct *sequence*, the back foot should finish a mere instant after the front foot on an advance. Many people teach the correct sequence by teaching people to reach out the front foot and touch the heel down and then bring the toe down and the back foot up simultaneously. However once you have learned the correct sequence this is dynamically incorrect. A proper advance is a *push* from the back foot and bring the back (pushing) foot up the instant the front foot touches down. Which should be toes first in epee.

"The coach for my college team teaches a 2-part advance, where the front foot should land as a preperation/distance testing method."

As a preparation/test this is fine, it's a half-advance or false=advance. But it should only be done occasionally and for specific purpose, not all the time, and you should not put any weight on the front foot when doing this, just touch it to the ground so you don't get stuck there.

"To make your movement dynamic try aiming for a more 1-2 movement."

Excellent advice. And a very *quick* 1-2 at that.

"Keep your weight balanced between your feet, as soon as you get close you put all your weight on your front foot, then you don't move your front foot, and your back foot bounces around"

A *very* good point. In the bouts in the video you are clearly trying to be ready to pull distance after picking at the wrist, and rightfully so. However with all your weight on the front foot and/or your back foot up in the air your opponent has no fear that you will attack them further and can take all the time they want to set up their answer. Notice that in the video the opponents who close distance slowly and carefully pretty much have their way with you. They can get away with this because with all your weight on your front foot there is no chance you will make a sudden attack into preparation.

Other observations:

You are much to close to *all* of your opponents. It doesn't matter that they're not that experienced. Half the time you and they are extension distance from each others guard and just staying there. Some of the time you are a half-advance further away. This is a tremendously bad habit and a quicker or more experienced fencer will make you pay dearly for it. For the actions you are trying to do, or should be trying to do you need full-advance-pick-to-wrist distance at the minimum, and slightly farther away preferred.

You are clearly more comfortable when your opponent attacks you. Which is fine, but staying at that close distance and jabbing at the underside of their hand or waving your point towards their forearm is *not* a good way to get them to attack you. To make most epee fencers try to attack you, preferably at a moment of your choosing, you must provoke them by believably threatening to hit them, then when you pull back and make an invitation they will decide they *have* to take the opportunity. The only way to do this successfully is lots of moving in and out of distance, so that their only opportunity to attack you is when you are giving them an invitation, or convince them they have to counter-attack *now* because they are afraid you will continue your intial attack/remise deeper. If they have no fear of deeper attacks/remises then they won't counter-attack when you want them to and they won't attack when you want them to. The best way to do that is much more dynamic movement that they cannot predict.

Once you get an opponent to attack you seriously you do fairly well. Your footwork gets better and quicker, you pull distance fairly well, you don't make large extraneous blade/point motions and even your arm and shoulder seem more relaxed and allow you to make multiple quicker blade actions. But you need to do these things all the time.

The essence of epee fencing is to provoke a reaction, or one of limited set of reactions, that you are prepared for and then take the tempo and hit them. You need to use longer distance, more dynamic footwork and pick-remise-remise (or pick-feint-slip off, etc.) to make your opponents attack you and to attack you when *you* want them to.

gary hayenga

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by garyhayenga

Your en garde position is fine if your general strategy is second-intention and counter-time. The elbow a fist from the body is an attacking en garde.

what do you mean by that??