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Stanislaus · 02-26-2005, 07:02 PM

ROW question #1 (OK, its question #1 for me, probably question #1,001 for this posting forum).

In foil, fencer A attacks. He advances, extends, lunges, and hits. His opponent opponent parries and ripostes, also hitting. The attack-hit and the riposte both land at the same time. The parry made a sound but did not deflect the blade of the attacker very much at all. Whose touch and why?

Please talk slowly, I'm a beginner.

Jarentz · 02-26-2005, 08:16 PM

The riposte gets the touch. Even a small parry is still sufficient to gain r.o.w.

ReverseLunge · 02-26-2005, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarentz

The riposte gets the touch. Even a small parry is still sufficient to gain r.o.w.

Correct. Even the smallest parry or beat will knock the tip out of line. You can see this if you ever play a fencing video in slow mo.

mrbiggs · 02-27-2005, 12:32 AM

I actually have a quick RoW question, but it's not deserving of a thread.

Is a malparry defined as if the original attack hits before the start of the riposte?

smeric28 · 02-27-2005, 12:49 AM

malpary is defined as an insufficent parry in laymans terms. it is not a proper directing term. if the parry did not deflect the point then it's not a parry. so tehnically there is no such thing as a malpary

CvilleFencer · 02-27-2005, 12:50 AM

Pet peeve of mine, a malparry is not defined at all! It was either parried, or the parry was late. There is really no such thing as a malparry. I have heard some old school judges say attack with oppisition to basically call a malparry, but the fact is that the parry was late, so it was not a parry at all, since it happened after the touch, which stops the action.

***edit, just saw that the above poster beat me to the answer in by about a second... Although I think it would be better to say that a parry is either a parry or not and not muddy the waters with the whole "did the tip wobble when I whacked it, and how much wobble is enough" argument that tends to arise..

mrbiggs · 02-27-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeric28

malpary is defined as an insufficent parry in laymans terms. it is not a proper directing term. if the parry did not deflect the point then it's not a parry. so tehnically there is no such thing as a malpary

Okay, then how do you define "knocking the point out of line"?

When I attack, and my blade hits my opponent while they are still parrying, it's my attack. Yet, if I attack, and my opponent does the same parry, but they riposte at the same time as I hit, it's their parry-riposte. What's the difference?

ReverseLunge · 02-27-2005, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I actually have a quick RoW question, but it's not deserving of a thread.

Is a malparry defined as if the original attack hits before the start of the riposte?

no. malparry is when the original attack hits before or at the same time as the parry. in foil, once you parry it doesnt matter if the continuation hits you unless your parry is so slow that the box locks you out. Then it would be called a remise in time for you opponent.

BTW. you sure post a lot more than you fence don't you?

mrbiggs · 02-27-2005, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

no. malparry is when the original attack hits before or at the same time as the parry. in foil, once you parry it doesnt matter if it continuation hits you unless your parry is so slow that the box locks you out. Then it would be called a remise in time for you opponent.

BTW. you sure post a lot more than you fence don't you?

Thanks.

Yes, I do, actually. I wish it could be different, but..

ViewtifulMisho · 02-27-2005, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

I have heard some old school judges say attack with oppisition to basically call a malparry, but the fact is that the parry was late, so it was not a parry at all, since it happened after the touch, which stops the action.

Why does it have to happen after the touch? You can deflect the opponent's blade at the same time as getting hit.

ReverseLunge · 02-27-2005, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ViewtifulMisho

Why does it have to happen after the touch? You can deflect the opponent's blade at the same time as getting hit.

It cannot happen after the touch or at the same time because a succesful attack with oppisition only has one light.

smeric28 · 02-27-2005, 02:20 AM

did you even read my post? knocking a point out of line is a parry. same goes for CvilleFencer who repeated with more words what i said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

Okay, then how do you define "knocking the point out of line"?

When I attack, and my blade hits my opponent while they are still parrying, it's my attack. Yet, if I attack, and my opponent does the same parry, but they riposte at the same time as I hit, it's their parry-riposte. What's the difference?

ReverseLunge · 02-27-2005, 02:26 AM

It's not that I don't understand your post. Your kowledge of ROW isn't that good.

smeric28 · 02-27-2005, 03:15 AM

Once again you didn't read. i was commenting on malparry, which has nothing to do with ROW. Because it simply doesn't exist when discribing a fencing action. you either made the parry or waved your sword in the air.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

It's not that I don't understand your post. Your kowledge of ROW isn't that good.

ReverseLunge · 02-27-2005, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeric28

Once again you didn't read. i was commenting on malparry, which has nothing to do with ROW. Because it simply doesn't exist when discribing a fencing action. you either made the parry or waved your sword in the air.

I understand but your knowledge of ROW is terrible.

Stanislaus · 02-27-2005, 07:40 PM

Thanks. That helps, I think. If the defender hit the attackers blade, its a parry, and the parry/riposte has right of way.

Now, how do I tell a beat attack from a parry/riposte?

downunder · 02-27-2005, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanislaus

Now, how do I tell a beat attack from a parry/riposte?

a beat attack is an offensive action, a parry reposte is a defensive action.

mrbiggs · 02-27-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by downunder

a beat attack is an offensive action, a parry reposte is a defensive action.

I think he means that when there's blade contact, who gets RoW?

I'm interested in the response myself, because I've heard two different responses to this question.

downunder · 02-27-2005, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I think he means that when there's blade contact, who gets RoW?

I'm interested in the response myself, because I've heard two different responses to this question.

honestly its a judgement call, i know what it is when i see it, but i think it would be very hard to describe

ReverseLunge · 02-27-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I think he means that when there's blade contact, who gets RoW?

I'm interested in the response myself, because I've heard two different responses to this question.

Sometimes you can't tell and have to do it again because sometimes both fencers think they are beating or parrying. A beat or parry is an action that does not threaten target. A parry is a defensive action done when your opponent's blade is moving towards you in a thretening manner while a beat is an offensive action done while you opponent blade is not moving. Also if you beat to your opponets forte then that is considered his parry.