Tactics for Conserving Energy on the Strip

[luv2fence]

I am at novice saber level and out of
shape, working to get in shape.

I would like to hear from any any level,
any weapon, on how to "conserve energy
on the strip". It is obvious that in any sport,
you can quickly dump a bunch of points,
while "conserving energy". It is also obvious
that you must maintain mental focus, even
if resting the body.

Let me throw out some examples for debate,
and you guys/gals add some items, please.

Learn to use low line. Use it occasionally to rest
the deltoid muscle. (I have never used low line,
much, so this is really a theory.)

All fencers use different tempos; use more slow
tempo in the mix.

Watch opponents for their tactics, which force
high energy use. Think of a low energy tactic
to counter.

Look for ways to end a point sooner rather than
later, if there is a reasonable chance to make the
point.

Use some energy-conserving tactics before you get
tired.

Stay loose, not tight.

Do not let a nimble Fred Astaire, who never tires,
wear you out. If you are going up and down the strip
too many times in a point, he will win, the match,
even if you win the point.

Now, loose the hounds.

luv2fence

[Grasshopper]

That's kind of funny. No offence, but you sound kind of lazy. I can see you at home: "Put remote control on armrest for easy access." "Sit on left side of couch so person on right has to answer phone if rings" . "Eat ice cream in bigger scoops to save spoon repetitions."

[LUDICROUS]

WTF! I just picked up the phone (it rang) and almost said "en guarde" - I had to make a mental effort not to!

Only advice I can offer from my huge long career is go running.

[sabreur]

In sabre, if you are getting tired, you can go for simultaneous attacks off the start line for a couple of points. This strategy is probably the least risky, although you still have to expend a fair amount of energy making sure that you don't get caught with a tempo attack. You need to vary the final lines of your attack, or you'll be open for a second intention parry-riposte (your opponent shapes as if to attack, then parries). Also, if your opponent picks up on what you are doing, (s)he can pull distance at the last instant, then begin his/her own attack.

In the long run, the best way to conserve energy as a sabreur is to learn to use very small, precise footwork in preparation. It is, IMNSHO, the most efficient and effective way to fence sabre, and you don't waste energy galloping when you don't need to.

At the same time, you have to be able change directions and speeds very quickly, which takes strength and endurance. Focused footwork, emphasizing sudden changes in tempo and direction, can help, as can intense general circuit training.

MR

[Joe biebel]

The only time I try to conserve energy would be in pool or DE matches where there is little or no way that I would lose. My method is counter-intuitive. I attack instantly and constantly until the match is over. I may give a few more hits overall this way, but the total time spent on the strip is much less. Plus, I get to hone my point control, and gain confidence in my attacking and counter-riposte skills. In DE matches, I try to be a "tad" more careful, I do not want a weaker opponent to gain any useful momentum. The idea is to have have enough energy in the last few matches, where a defeat is possible, to go each and every touch at full throttle without noticable fatique.
Joe Biebel

[Alain]

Conserve energy, in fencing..? No offence intended, but when you fight you should go hit for hit, try your best for every single point - okay, you might not have as much energy, but at the end of the day you'll have done better in the competition!

There's no overnight solution, just train hard and sensibly, work on your endurance more and you won't need to conserve energy

[veeco]

One way to conserve energy is to finish off the bout quickly so you can rest more in between bouts ;-)

[luv2fence]

I have not taken offence to the
"your lazy" or worker harder suggestions.
Since they have been posted,
I do not need to read it again.

There is an active Endurance thread where
many good suggestions are made on training
methods and eating right. I did not want to
hijack that thread, and I did want to explore
conserving energy. Thanks to those who gave
specifics.

Please post here, if you have specifics,
on this subject.

If you think this thread lacks relevance,
consider this. There are a number of
highly skilled older fencers who would
still like to compete against some younger
fencers. No matter how much they prepare,
they will still need to conserve energy,
if they can.

luv2fence

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

The more energy you expend, in the long run, the more you will have. At this level, since you're still out of shape, try to break yourself on the strip. Get winded. Quickly enough, getting tuckered out wont even be an issue. It pays off, eventually.

[kalivor]

Originally Posted by luv2fence

If you think this thread lacks relevance,
consider this. There are a number of
highly skilled older fencers who would
still like to compete against some younger
fencers. No matter how much they prepare,
they will still need to conserve energy,
if they can.

Yep, but anyone highly skilled knows that the best way to get a 10-second breather is to re-tie the shoe, pick up the socks (hence, wearing loose socks -- usually a-OK in sabre), or just take their time going back to the en garde line. Straighten your blade, check the conductivity of your opponent's manchette, fiddle with your headwire. If you feel the need to do this stuff constantly, you'll annoy the crap out of everybody, but there's a myriad of ways to get a brief breather between points ... just use it sparingly, otherwise you might become known for it, and people will get upset when you really DO have to tie your shoe.

You're not going to find much opportunity to rest when actually fencing, at least if you have any intention of winning the point. Particularly in sabre.

Maybe you could lose a point or two while you catch your breath?

[swordwench]

Originally Posted by luv2fence

If you think this thread lacks relevance,
consider this. There are a number of
highly skilled older fencers who would
still like to compete against some younger
fencers. No matter how much they prepare,
they will still need to conserve energy,
if they can.

I may not be highly skilled, but I'm older, so I'll pipe in. I used to fence really defensively. I liked to think I was like a spider - I'd just hang out in my web and wait for the littl'uns to come at me, then look for an opening. In reality, I was just older and more out of shape than they were, but that tactic worked well against other inexperienced fencers.

As soon as I started to fence people that were actually good, I got destroyed. Hmm. So I got more aggressive (in my nature anyway) and initiated attacks, and I found I wasn't being chased off the strip anymore - and I didn't get so tired. Darned if I wasn't scoring more touches. The more I did this, and the more I trained, the more endurance I had. Bonus: even when I lose, I don't go down looking faint-hearted.

[Victor]

It's hard to not pen a response to this query without initially sounding judgmental or insulting. I would like to believe it's not the intent of most(?) here to slap you down with negativity.

But, really, conserving energy *during* a saber bout is kinda sorta impossible. Once the director gives the command to fence, you're going to clash right away or try to out-retreat your opponent's advances. There's no middle ground for catching a lot of breath.

It could be argued, maybe, that in epee and foil you have more opportunities where both fencers pull away at the same time to reset -- almost an unspoken agreement, "Well, that didn't work. Let's try again." But that's nothing you can count on. And in saber? Nuh-uh.

Simple truth is that you're just going to have to be patient as your body's capabilities catch up with your desires. Train, eat well, and grab brief rest breaks between touches and bouts.

Only one tip to offer: After each point, turn and walk non-quickly to the end of the strip before you come back to en guarde. Don't rush, but don't dawdle. Use the moment for a tactical review break as well.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

my perspective, and it could be flawed, is that if one is trying to conserve energy while fencing sabre..... they should either win the bout, or lose it.


if you just stop with whatever bs is going on and just.... win... it's over faster.


if you stop moving, or start consistantly putting up PIL, or anything else that could be construed as trying to conserve energy, you're probably going to lose..... but significantly more slowly than you would if you just... lost.

that said, on days when i'm specifically moving forward for every single action, i usually get more tired. but that could just be me.....

[Cipher]

One method you can practice while you are waiting for your body to catch up to your ambition is correct breathing. I learned how important breathing can be for endurance through long-distance running and yoga. Yoga is what helped most though. I found that after I had been attending pranayama (yogic breathing) sessions for a couple months, I had taken a full minute off of my 5-mile run time without changing my physical training at all.

I'm not suggesting that you try this instead of good wind-building, hard-core aerobic exercise, but it's something that will give you a little boost to your ability to endure while you are getting into shape.

[wflaschka]

Another trick is to watch what other reduced ability fencers do. Good fencers returning from a long break; good fencers fencing with an injury; good fencers who got fat; good fencers who got old.

Fencers in these situations are working with less than what they usually have (just like a fatigued fencer). If they are/were high level, they'll have a "step down" approach that deprecates difficult or tiring moves, and generally changes the tactics they use. The worse their physical situation gets, the more they funnel their fencing into simpler and more reliable actions. I try to think that way whenever I've veered into complete unhealthiness, e.g., I try to bout after 6 months of just giving lessons.

[shlepzig]

To conserve energy on the strip, don't waste energy on the strip.

If you are of the less fit persuasion, you are still able to fence, and still able to be competitive against those that are more fit. You need to accept that this is a weakness in your game and not expose it. Here are some of my hints as an aging fencer that is not quite qualified as a veteran.

1. Don't bounce - many top fencers bounce, and are able to use this to an advantage. These top fencers have the energy to expend for this. If you don't have the energy, don't do it. What you can do is look for openings in the rhythm of the bounce and time an attack into it.

2. Don't run down the strip after someone. - You don't need to redouble when your nimble opponent has danced away from you. Recover, and keep an eye on them. Try to draw them into an attack on your recovery and be ready for it. There is a tactical time to redouble, but it takes a lot of energy to sustain a phrase, this can make the phrase an endurance contest you might loose.

3. Keep the phrases short and hold your ground - See above about long phrases, these are like endurance events. Stop the phrase with the aforementioned PIL and generally good composure. Your opponent will try to destroy your composure with pressure, and lengthen the phrase, especially if he senses you can't go the distance. Wheel back enough to stop the exchange, and hold there (the aforementioned PIL is a good thing here). Be ready and look ready when the initial attack has run out of steam. Veteran epeeists are really good at this.

4. Short attacks - See the Marx lunge, super long, and fast with that springy recovery. Don't do that, you're not built that way. Recovery from way down there will turn your legs to jelly. Short precise lunges at the right time will serve the tired really well, they maintain composure and can keep the pressure on an opponent that may have more legs on him.

5. Fleche when you need to. - The Fleche is the old man's mainstay. It is a short explosive attack with good amount of distance, and you don't need to recover from a deep knee bend. If you miss, you get a couple seconds to get back on guard and all, and since it is a legitimate attack, you don't have to worry about a yellow card for delaying the bout.

6. In-fight when you can - In fighting really plays no favorites fitness wise. You don't have the legs to run, so stand and fight it out. If you have some skills here you won't give up too many touches, and it rarely lasts very long before someone hits something, or the director calls a halt. Careful of the corps a corps with the new rulings.

All in all if you don't have the fitness for a running game, you have to play a thinking game. You are at a disadvantage to someone who can do both. You are not at a disadvantage to some fencers who only know how to play a running game. If you keep at it, you will get stonger and have more endurance, until then you don't have to get wasted every time you get on the strip.

Shlep.

[Tydive]

Nice post shlep.

Lazy man style fencing is viable. I see it more in epee, but there is no reason you can't do it in sabre. I have had to do this a few times (like when I had a 102 temperature during westerns).
Start the bout looking like you have no energy, then when you need to explode into action it will be more of a surprise.
Use slow feet and fast hands.
Take small steps and short lunges.
Relax your body as much as possible.
Take the offensive as soon as the other person is in your distance.
Rarely back up, it's about standing your ground and making them pay for getting close.
Create openings to draw attacks to specific lines so that you know where they will attack and can have your best parry repost combos ready to go.
Don't watch the clock, don't chase the other guy.

The advice about breathing is spot on as well. Good deep breathing can do wonders for your endurance. Also keep your emotions under control.

[achilleus]

I'm amazed no one stated the obvious. Better technique. Good technique is all about economy of motion.

So, better technique on your footwork, bladework, and posture will allow you to save energy.

Also, develop a really good PiL. You can slow down many speedsters with a well timed PiL.

And lastly, as mentioned above, gamesmanship. Question the ref about calls, test lames, fix your mask, hair if you got it, etc...

[Peach]

I work hard, train regularly, cross-train, and fence for hours at a time, and I definitely need to conserve energy sometimes. I'm 53 and I'm kinda like a car with 200,000 miles on it; I can't drive with the pedal to the metal all the time any more. Not only that, I have exercise asthma and sometimes a new venue will bring new allergens and irritants to trigger it.

Many of the suggestions so far have been good--deliberate return to the on-guard line, simultaneous attacks, adjusting your mask/socks/blade bend, asking the score, etc..

When I'm really exhausted and things just aren't working, sometimes I'll step back and put line. I've developed a whole bunch of actions off line from times when I'm broken (sciatica, bad feet, etc.) and I often find that with many opponents, including young fast ones, I can get several points that way while I'm catching my breath. Heck, I once fenced an entire pool in Division I Nationals putting line because I was in severe pain, and got good touches on everyone.

(edited to add yeah, what achilleus said)

[A Fencer]

Originally Posted by luv2fence

I am at novice saber level and out of
shape, working to get in shape.

I would like to hear from any any level,
any weapon, on how to "conserve energy
on the strip". It is obvious that in any sport,
you can quickly dump a bunch of points,
while "conserving energy". It is also obvious
that you must maintain mental focus, even
if resting the body.

Let me throw out some examples for debate,
and you guys/gals add some items, please.

Learn to use low line. Use it occasionally to rest
the deltoid muscle. (I have never used low line,
much, so this is really a theory.)

All fencers use different tempos; use more slow
tempo in the mix.

Watch opponents for their tactics, which force
high energy use. Think of a low energy tactic
to counter.

Look for ways to end a point sooner rather than
later, if there is a reasonable chance to make the
point.

Use some energy-conserving tactics before you get
tired.

Stay loose, not tight.

Do not let a nimble Fred Astaire, who never tires,
wear you out. If you are going up and down the strip
too many times in a point, he will win, the match,
even if you win the point.

Now, loose the hounds.

luv2fence

You might want to try fewer Big Macs and more slimfast. Oh and here's another idea you could try this crazy thing called practice. Gotta get rid of that spare tire after all...