New Ranking

[DHCJr]

SmokeyTheCat263, I agree with your last paragraph. I know a coach, who never amounted to much as a fencer, but produce a number of NCAA All-Americans. I myself am a U fencer in all three and I don't expect to ever get a ranking. Should I just quit also. I have a feeling there may be a few thousand who would not like to see me quit. Just because a person does not have a high ranking (Physical ability), doesn't mean they don't have knowledge (Brain ability). These do not necessarily have any corelation.

There are a number of fencers in my area with physical handicap. Most of them probably won't make C, but they are enjoying the sport and being positive about the sport and the other people in it.

The negative people, I would like to see quit.

[SmokeyTheCat263]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

SmokeyTheCat263, I agree with your last paragraph. .

Haha touche

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I know a coach, who never amounted to much as a fencer, but produce a number of NCAA All-Americans. I myself am a U fencer in all three and I don't expect to ever get a ranking. Should I just quit also. I have a feeling there may be a few thousand who would not like to see me quit. Just because a person does not have a high ranking (Physical ability), doesn't mean they don't have knowledge (Brain ability). These do not necessarily have any corelation
There are a number of fencers in my area with physical handicap. Most of them probably won't make C, but they are enjoying the sport and being positive about the sport and the other people in it.

The negative people, I would like to see quit.

I think there are two types of fencers:
1. Those who want to be the best
2. Everyone else

I guess I erroneously assumed everyone to be the first type. Thanks (DHCJr) for reminding me that there are such things as recreational fencers. Regarding my comment to Biggs telling him to quit, I think it was a response to him saying no matter how hard he works he will never get a C cause he doesn't have the olympic coaches near him (or something along those lines). That really pissed me off. But my advice is proper to anyone competing. If you believe you will never achieve goal X, you won't.

DHC Jr, I don't know if I completely agree with your theory about coaches. Generally, I agree that you don't need to have had results as a competitor to raise amazing ones. However, there is a limit.

For example, If i ask Biggs which line i need to close out to do opposition 8 on a lefty, he may be able to cite something he read somewhere, or atliest parrot his coach, if he doesnt already know from personal experience. This he can do. However, if I ask him something more useful to me, like how to conserve energy between bouts for NCAA regionals this weekend when there are four rounds of pools against high level fencers...or how to push Cory Werk or Nitai Kfir down the strip when they have some of the strongest attacks in the nation....these kind've practical questions he cannot answer.

[RebelFencer]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheCat263

For example, If i ask Biggs which line i need to close out to do opposition 8 on a lefty, he may be able to cite something he read somewhere, or atliest parrot his coach, if he doesnt already know from personal experience. This he can do. However, if I ask him something more useful to me, like how to conserve energy between bouts for NCAA regionals this weekend when there are four rounds of pools against high level fencers...or how to push Cory Werk or Nitai Kfir down the strip when they have some of the strongest attacks in the nation....these kind've practical questions he cannot answer.

The answers you seek can be found within your heart grasshopper.

[klauver]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheCat263

Biggs-

Okay, if you think you will never earn above a C rating in foil, then you should stop competing RIGHT NOW. That kind of attitude will get you nowhere at all. I know I'm a jerk. I honestly think this is the best thing for fencers like you. Read this post a couple times please before criticizing it. You (biggs) may find it actually is useful.

You are right you are a jerk, but as you say you have the same rights to post that you gave Biggs.

You need to wake up and look at the percentages, although you will just say that they don't apply to you.

Here is the split of rankings of "competitive" members of the USFA as of July 2003:
Foil
A 211 1.49%
B 353 2.50%
C 534 3.78%
D 666 4.72%
E 934 6.61%
U 11,427 80.90%

Less than 20% of all competitive fencers have a rating! Anyone receiving a rating is in a select group and should be proud of their accomplishments.

I had a "C" rating when I was a kid, 21. I am now 48 and probably will never get my "C" back, but I won't quit competing until I can't hold a weapon. But guess what? I coach now without an active rating.

Setting realistic goals is a part of life. For someone to set a goal of less than an "A" is a lot more realistic than your plan to quit if you can't keep aiming at an "A" rating.

Good Luck in your goals.

"Coach" Ken

[DangerMouse]

You're analysis is flawed. Less than 20% of USFA competitive members have a classification for FOIL. That does not mean they don't have any classification. For example, I am unrated for saber, but I have an A in epee. The published numbers do not differentiate primary weapons and therefore include all USFA members in each category. For a more realistic number, divide the total number of fencers by 3 (also flawed, but probably closer to the truth). The results are more along the lines of 60% of fencers that primarily fence foil are rated. 40% are not.

Either way, the argument still stands. When you are a beginning fencer, or do not perform well at competitions, you may "know" a lot about fencing, but you cannot credibly make the claim that you know a lot about how to apply your "knowlege."

My point earlier is that when you have more perspective, you'll look at all the idiots that don't have any perspective and think they know a lot and you'll cringe.

To follow up to DHC's point, you may not ever expect to get a rating and just fence recreationally, but I have yet to see you argue with accomplished fencers on here about technique. I have seen you argue with less accomplished armorers that think they know everything about armoring, so I would guess you know the feeling some fencers get reading the advice posted on here regularly.

[DHCJr]

SmokeyTheCat263, I commend you. admitting mistakes takes courage. I am afraid I have to do it a lot here, which brings me to DangerMouse. You're right I rarely make any sort of comments on techniques. A lot of that is I rarely even look at post along that line. But there have been times I have. Ask Eric Dew, I've disagreed with him on occasion. I also conceded points to less experienced Armorers. I am not the best, I am not even close to the best. I continue coming on this forum, because I continue to learn.

Not all the people with ratings in Foil are fencers whose primary weapon is Foil. I still stand by my statement, if you have a rating, you are in the minority.

I do agree with you on some of the advice given is very poor. And as been pointed out to me, high reputation points can have little relation to their knowledge. I am sure when someone gives bad advice, there will be those who will jump in.

[smeric28]

you guys are a bunch of dicks your jumpin on the poor kid for asking how long it takes for a new card to arrive. the quetion was valid your stupid posturing about an e not being a big deal is not.

[klauver]

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

You're analysis is flawed. Less than 20% of USFA competitive members have a classification for FOIL. That does not mean they don't have any classification. For example, I am unrated for saber, but I have an A in epee. The published numbers do not differentiate primary weapons and therefore include all USFA members in each category. For a more realistic number, divide the total number of fencers by 3 (also flawed, but probably closer to the truth). The results are more along the lines of 60% of fencers that primarily fence foil are rated. 40% are not.

Sorry to have confused you. That number was just competitive foil fencers, 77.75% of Epee and 87.65% of Saberists are unrated.

Here's the link, do the research...
http://www.usfencing.org/Official/BOD200310A.pdf

[oiuyt]

63.88% of USFA competitive members are unclassified in all three weapons. If you have a classification in any weapon you're ahead of most fencers in this country.

-B :)

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheCat263

Biggs-

Okay, if you think you will never earn above a C rating in foil, then you should stop competing RIGHT NOW. That kind of attitude will get you nowhere at all. Ask any succesful fencer, and chances are they were dreaming of their 'A' rating from the day they learned about such a thing. I know I was, and now I dream about bigger and better things that I may not acheive until years from now.

Oh, you're misunderstandind what I'm saying. It's not a matter of what I hope to do. Do I dream of being an A? Yeah! Do I think constantly about what I can do to make myself just a little better, so I can come that much closer to acheiving that goal? Yes, of course. But at the same time, I realize that I'm not that much of an athlete, and that with my abilities, it's unlikely that I'll become a great foilist. MIGHT I become one, if I work hard? Yes, and that's why I do work at it. But at the same time, I can admit to myself that I'm not much of an athlete.

I didn't say that I don't have a C because of a lack of olympic coaches in my area. I've got plenty of coaching that will get me to and beyond that level. I was saying that unlike you, I have some questions that I cannot get a definate answer on--or I get contradictory answers from different coaches whom I respect. In those situations, I go online.

[jdzik]

Hmm... I've got to say, there's dozens (hundreds?) of things that I do for fun that I don't ever intend to be the best at. That doesn't keep me from enjoying them!

I'm never going to win an olympic medal in skiing. But I still have fun going down the green slopes. I'll never leap a horse over a six foot fence. But two foot fences can be fun to jump. I'll never get a grammy record, but that doesn't stop me from singing in the shower!

Now, I sure would like to get an A in foil one of these days. But I doubt it's giong to happen. (It might. It's not impossible. But I just don't see myself ever being willing or able to devote the amount of time it would require to reach that goal. Plus, there's the whole issue of fencing with forty-year-old reflexes...)

Of course, there are folks out there who only like doing activities if they think they can exceed at them. I'm just not one of those.

In my home office, I have the despair.com poster for Ineptitude hanging. That's the one that says, "If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it poorly." Which captures my attitude about a whole lot of awfully fun activities.

Joe

[jdzik]

And a note on ratings: while having a rating is no guarantee that you're a better fencer - I'm an E, and I've been beaten by plenty of U's - it's not entirely meaningless.

I'd say that fencing ability, like so much in life, lies somewhere on a bell curve. But the curve for a rated fencer lies somewhere to the right of an unrated fencer, with each rating level shifting the curve further.

At least, that's been my experience. If I'm going against a U, he almost certanily won't be as good as a C, and some of my easier moves might work. If I'm against a D, I can usually expect him to adjust a bit quicker, and I'd better not try my sucker moves.

And, of course, no matter how little it matters, it just plain feels so good to earn that rating!

Joe

[SmokeyTheCat263]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

I didn't say that I don't have a C because of a lack of olympic coaches in my area. I've got plenty of coaching that will get me to and beyond that level. I was saying that unlike you, I have some questions that I cannot get a definate answer on--or I get contradictory answers from different coaches whom I respect. In those situations, I go online.

Biggs - you miss the point. Looking online is a waste of time for the most part. Why? Bad advice is everywhere, and the questions you may have will answer themselves over time if you simply fence more and post less.

As for what you believe about me and my situation, let me tell you my coach doesnt speak enough english to answer 99% of the questions i may have. Even if he did, I don't think I would fire away like drippingwet does. I would do what I do now - fence more and try to find answers for myself. People need to stop studying fencing, and just go fence.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheCat263

Biggs - you miss the point. Looking online is a waste of time for the most part. Why? Bad advice is everywhere, and the questions you may have will answer themselves over time if you simply fence more and post less.

Ummmm...no. I can't even tell you how much I've learned here. I'm not even going to try to start. A good example that I know quite a bit about sabre teaching, tactics, and theory, despite the nearest sabre coach being well over an hour away. It won't help my fencing much, but it will help my teaching.

As for the bad advice...I disagree completely. Sure, occaisionally a new fencer will post incorrect advice, but he or she is invariably corrected as soon as a knowledgeable fencer logs on. That's why we have the "Fencing Expert" notation. Have I given bad advice? Sure I have. (But less and less the more I come here.) But every time I do, I am corrected, and it's a learning experience for me as well.

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheCat263

As for what you believe about me and my situation, let me tell you my coach doesnt speak enough english to answer 99% of the questions i may have. Even if he did, I don't think I would fire away like drippingwet does. I would do what I do now - fence more and try to find answers for myself. People need to stop studying fencing, and just go fence.

I'm sorry if I sounded accusatory. My point was that I don't always know what the answer is to a question about fencing. So I post here. Why the hell wouldn't I?

Is this another disguised attack on drippingwet? Do you think I AM drippingwet? Holy crap, everyone who has a problem with drippingwet should feel free to not read his posts, and stop bitching about it.

Personally, I know that I'll never be a full-time fencer. But I DO want to help others fence. Therefore, to accomplish that goal, it is better for me to study fencing than to just fence. Which I do as well.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheCat263

People need to stop studying fencing, and just go fence.

People need to stop complaining about others' posts, and actually contribute something if they know so much.

[Rodeo79]

I love pot and kettle posts...
Don't be online and read this message board...
Yet here you are posting and reading the same board????

Then ask questions no one can answer but you...
How do you conserve energy between bouts?
Train so you have energy and can stretch and keep warm between bouts....
Save your energy between pools and DE's...
You want to know how to do that? The same way everyone else in the world does... Do nothing... Last I heard that doesn't waste alot of energy...
Give me a break...
How to push so and so down the strip? Why an epee fencer cares about pushing 2 foil fencers down a strip? I know I don't, besides if you can only win on 1/3 of the strip, you should take your own advice and train more...

There's one thing I dislike more than bad people giving bad advice, it's people who think they are good giving bad advice...