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smeric28 · 02-24-2005, 04:00 AM

In my conversations with other fencers i continually hear new creative things that give maraging steel it's charateristics. I want to know what people here think is in it.

esskreemr · 02-24-2005, 04:40 AM

Carbonless steel alloy strengthened by martensitic transformation followed by age or precipitation producing a strong, hard metal.

pgepps · 02-24-2005, 07:08 AM

What he said. *AND* the blood of a freshly-slain white goat, into which the steel is thrust while red-hot.

cowpaste · 02-24-2005, 07:44 AM

Live goats work too!

Zilverzmurfen · 02-24-2005, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowpaste

Live goats work too!

...or a catholic choir boy!

[/JOKE]

DHCJr · 02-24-2005, 11:33 AM

What is required to be in it can be found in Appendix A of the rule book, page 70 of the USFA rulebook.

esskreemr · 02-24-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

...or a catholic choir boy!

Hee hee, I thought I was bad. Keep on zmurfen! You're absolutely zmurfen great!

LordTofuDog-jnr · 02-24-2005, 04:36 PM

The Japanese often stabbed a katana into a criminal, not always a dead one, to infuse it with the criminals strength.

Zilverzmurfen · 02-24-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordTofuDog-jnr

The Japanese often stabbed a katana into a criminal, not always a dead one, to infuse it with the criminals strength.

Really? I was actually thinking along those lines but thought "...oh no, that's got to be too fictious..."

noodle · 02-24-2005, 05:14 PM

http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthr...925#post188925

...

howtobrew · 02-24-2005, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeric28

In my conversations with other fencers i continually hear new creative things that give maraging steel it's charateristics. I want to know what people here think is in it.

Maraging steel is a low carbon, high nickel, precipitation hardening, iron base alloy. It differs from ordinary carbon steel by being low carbon (thus does not harden by quenching and termpering the marteniste phase), and does not have the chromium that most other stainless steel has for corrosion resistance.

For example, 300 series stainless (18%Cr, 8%Ni) is used for cooking pots, beer kegs, tubing, etc. It has very good corrosion resistance, but low strength and hardness. The 400 series alloys have high chromium and very low nickel (if), and have high hardness and strength, but comparatively low corrosion resistance to 300 series. Used for stainless steel knife blades. Low fracture toughness.

Then there are the ordinary precipitation hardening alloys, that are compositionally similar to 300 series, but have higher strength. And there are the tool steels which are like the 400 series but are less complex alloys with more carbon for high hardness, OR high toughness, OR high strength, OR etc.

The maraging steels are useful because they can be extensibly worked in the solutionized condition which is a moderate strength, moderate hardness state similar to 300 series, and then aged without dimensional distortion to the stronger state by precipitation of intermetallics (cobalt-nickel, cobalt-molybdenum, cobalt-aluminum, nickel-aluminum). These precipitates act like pebbles in cement. The precipitates stiffen the matrix by preventing the movement of atomic slip planes that normally accomadate strain.

The only downside to maraging steel is that they are notoriously susceptible to stress-corrosion cracking and hydrogen embrittlement. If you wrap your maraging blade in a sweat-soaked jacket, the salt will cause a crack to develop in the blade, that will propagate via residual stresses (the curve in the blade) (especially where you straightened a kink) and eventually break.

As a final tidbit, maraging steels are stronger than stainless steels (300 vs 200 kpsi), and are stronger than low alloy carbon steels, though not by much. The fracture toughness of maraging is higher than that of carbon steels.

Hope this helps,
John

telkanuru · 02-24-2005, 06:15 PM

Why one never asks an engineer for answers

I found it interesting, though (ME in training).

Thanks!

Purple Fencer · 02-24-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Why one never asks an engineer for answers

I found it interesting, though (ME in training).

Thanks!

Well...someone DID ask! By far the most informative answer I've ever seen...even if much of it DID go over my head. The note of suceptibility to damage from exposure to salt sweats was something I had NEVER heard before...good to know.

Do non-FIE blades have the same problem. And what kind of steel are non FIEs generally made from...tool, spring, something else?

howtobrew · 02-24-2005, 08:36 PM

What are non-FIEs made from??
I don't know, I would imagine that they are spring steel, but the websites don't say. I should see if there are any broken blades at the club I could do an xray analysis on....

DHCJr · 02-25-2005, 02:55 AM

Mostly the are a carbon steel. On poorly made ones you will see black spots. That is not good. Those are carbon deposits.

ReverseLunge · 02-25-2005, 04:40 AM

I wonder if it would be possible to make a blade out of titanium? maybe it would be too stiff? I don't know anything about this stuff.

howtobrew · 02-25-2005, 12:39 PM

No, Titanium would not be stiff enough. It has an Elastic Modulus about half that of steel, which means that it only takes half the stress to accomplish the same amount of strain as steel. In other words, your blade would kink easier. To get the same amount of stiffness, the blade would need to be twice as thick.
A titanium blade would be very whippy and light.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 02-25-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howtobrew

No, Titanium would not be stiff enough. It has an Elastic Modulus about half that of steel, which means that it only takes half the stress to accomplish the same amount of strain as steel. In other words, your blade would kink easier. To get the same amount of stiffness, the blade would need to be twice as thick.
A titanium blade would be very whippy and light.

not neccasarily a bad thing.... how about an epee blade where the middle and forte of the blade was carbon steel, and the foible was titanium? It would have the power for blade takes, and the whippyness to flick right over the bell. The weight would be balanced toward the hand.

scrapinpeg · 02-25-2005, 01:34 PM

How about an aluminum blade with hints of titanium and magnesium? Lighter yet stronger, I'm thinking.

Purple Fencer · 02-25-2005, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howtobrew

No, Titanium would not be stiff enough. It has an Elastic Modulus about half that of steel, which means that it only takes half the stress to accomplish the same amount of strain as steel. In other words, your blade would kink easier. To get the same amount of stiffness, the blade would need to be twice as thick.
A titanium blade would be very whippy and light.

What about longevity compared to an average carbon-steel blade...just out of curiosity (since it sounds like a titanium blade would violate the bend specs)