super glue (5 questions w/o Craig Kilborn)

[El Chucko]

I hope I am not being redundant, but I have glue questions:

1 - I am considering using super glue to rewire my blades. Several people have recommended it, and I was wondering if you use "classic" super glue, or the gel kind?

2 - Are there any advantages besides the fast drying time and good adhesion?

3 - Are there disadvantages besides the difficulty of removal?

4 - Anything to consider for wiring a foil blade vs. an epee blade?

5 - Is top glueing the only way to go with an adhesive that cures so quickly?

Thanks, all.

[CvilleFencer]

Do a forum search and you will come up with a zillion threads discussing this in more detail. Some popular options to super glue are epoxy, emblem adhesive, and some types of things that act like superglue, but have a bit more give (I forget the incredibly long name).

As to the shortcomings of super glue, if you do it right, there are no real problems. The easies way to remove wires is to take a lead or metal pipe, cap one end and fill it about 4/5ths of the way with acetone. Soak the blade for a couple of hours and it will come out super clean. Then just wipe it down (I use a cotton ball soaked in alcohol) and do your wiring. One cool thing about super glue is that you can get use an accelerator for it and your glue can be dry enough to fence with in about a minute! Great for quick repairs at tourneys and such.

As to top vs. other methods, to some degree your glue determines what method you use. If it is very quick drying, top glue is the easiest way to go. If you are using emblem adhesive or epoxy you can try some different methods.

As to using one for epee or foil, epoxy or eblem adhesive is easier with an epee as the groove is much wider, but both take some time o use well. As one being better than the other, I usually use elblem adhesive on my own epees, but I use a good quality super glue for all the weapons I do armouring work for unless they request something differant.

Glue vs. gel? Personal preferance to some extent. Usually the more you do it the better you can control the run of the glue and general start to prefer a glue as close to water as you can get to have everything done quicker and so that the glue soaks into the wires insulation. Some people like to use gel at the tip and tang since it is less likely to run and use regular glue for the rest of the blade. I do this myself if I am at a tourney and do not have my proper work area as a "just in case" kind of thing.

Hope all of that was some help!

[smeric28]

i really would not recommend acetone. it causes the blades to corrode. i use a utility knife and a vise to clean my blades, reguardless of what glue was used. my technique is to hold the blade parallel in the vice and run the utility knife blade in the grove. if you twist the blade ever so sligtly you will scrap the sides of the grove and remove all the glue and stuck in wires.
p.s. be sure to use a vice or else you will slice your fingers. you can buy a simple table vice that will clamp onto your work bench for like 7 or 8 bucks at homedeopt.

also i use "emblem adhesive" because i think super glue dries to fast to work with and get a good fix. (you can buy it at autozone for like 5 bucks rather than pay 8 at a supply house)

[CvilleFencer]

Originally Posted by smeric28

i really would not recommend acetone. it causes the blades to corrode.

So does air. I use to be rather against acetone until I started to really use it. If you don't leave the blades in a crazy amount of time and clean the blade off with something that can counteract the acetone it is really fine and the best way to work on lots of blades. Besides I usually take the chance to polish and debur my blades once they come out of the acetone sot the surface steel gets gotten ric of anyway. The only real problem I have found with acetone is that it does not play well with some of the brighter colored blades.

[davesaint]

Originally Posted by CvilleFencer

One cool thing about super glue is that you can get use an accelerator for it and your glue can be dry enough to fence with in about a minute! Great for quick repairs at tourneys and such.

I have come up with one problem when using an accelerator on the superglue when I am rewiring my blades, it makes the superglue really hard and thus reduces the life expectancy of the wiring job. It does work great if you are in a pinch, but if you want the wiring job to last, let the superglue cure naturally.


Dave

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by davesaint

I have come up with one problem when using an accelerator on the superglue when I am rewiring my blades, it makes the superglue really hard and thus reduces the life expectancy of the wiring job. It does work great if you are in a pinch, but if you want the wiring job to last, let the superglue cure naturally.


Dave

That may be true depending on the TYPE of superglue you use.

I used to use standard stuff you'd buy at a hardware store. You are rught that it gets grittle....but it's brittle anyway.

Last year I started using Devcon HV 1200...it;s a bit more rubbery when set than regular superglue. it's minimized my popouts a lot, and I always use an accelerant. It takes a few seconds to set, even with the accelerant (compared to insta0cure with regular stuff), and it's expensive, but it's worked well for me.

[remise]

I have to second Purple Fencer. I used Super Glue for a couple of years (with an accelerant), and never had a wire pop out. Even the beginners at the club couldn't pop the wires out, which, I think, is saying something.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by remise

I have to second Purple Fencer. I used Super Glue for a couple of years (with an accelerant), and never had a wire pop out. Even the beginners at the club couldn't pop the wires out, which, I think, is saying something.

But note I have changed the TYPE of superglue. With the usual stuff I WAS having pops...with the new stuff it's minimized a bit.

[Zara_athlen]

the best wiring glue hands down. ZAP CA. By far the best. No bottom glue needed. Just clean out the groove really well place the wire in tight and put it on top. Lasts forever, its the best.

[jeffp]

Originally Posted by smeric28

i really would not recommend acetone. it causes the blades to corrode. ...

This confuses me. I just bought acetone at the hardware store to do blade cleanup. It clearly comes in a steel container. If acetone corrodes steel, I'd think that they'd ship it in something else, don't you? It would get rather messy if it ate through the shipping container(s).

--jeffp

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I believe that the only thing acetone corrodes is plastic.

[jeffp]

Originally Posted by jeffp

This confuses me. I just bought acetone at the hardware store to do blade cleanup. It clearly comes in a steel container. If acetone corrodes steel, I'd think that they'd ship it in something else, don't you? It would get rather messy if it ate through the shipping container(s).

--jeffp

I asked a couple of chemistry knowledgable friends about this. Both think that acetone will do no harm to steel. One, in particular, says the following:

Clean away with free abandon. The blade will be perfect. In order to corrode the blade it will take immersion over a very long period of time to set up a natural electrolysis and provide the heat of activation for any type of corrosion.

He's not a working chemist, but his background is there. I really doubt that acetone is going to hurt blades, even if soaked for a few days. I'll keep using this method to remove the glue & gunk on them. I used to use the hand scraper method, and it takes forever in comparison.

--jeffp

[Purple Fencer]

I have left blades in teh acetone bath over a 3 day weekend with no ill effects.

[pbharriso]

I have soaked blades for a couple of weeks with no harm. Of course, if you get any water in the pipe, all bets are off.

BTW, in making the pipe to keep the acetone in, you need some sort of sealant for the screw on cap for the bottom - make sure it is designed for use with petroleum products and/or solvents. Acetone dissolves a lot of stuff. And when you make the pipe, make sure there is a lid for it - I used the same sort of metal cap as the bottom, just without the sealant. You do not want all the acetone evaporating into the air you are breathing. Plus it is flammable.

[pbharriso]

You might have trouble getting the gel type glue to go into a thin groove. I use the thinnest type. Often, it will run down the groove a way. Watch out it does not go too far - one time, the wire was glued about an inch up the tang, oops.

Another hazard with super glue - get it on your fingers, touch your fingers together, instant bonding. You need a razor blade to get them apart, or wait a couple of weeks for the skin to grow out enough. My father is an ophthalmologist who has used super glue instead of stitches to temporarily (a couple of weeks) glue eyelids partially shut.

Definitely top glue. The glue is thin enough that it immediately runs down under the wire anyway.

The trick to stop wire pops I am convinced is having a clean groove. If it is a blade that I am rewiring, then mostly the acetone does an excellent job. I also clean off the blade with denatured alcohol. If it is a new blade, and the groove is full of black gunk, I clean it out as best I can with paper towel over a thumb nail (NOT very effective) then Dremel it to shiny metal. BTW, I would not use rubbing alcohol. That is 30% (or is it 70%) water. Takes longer to dry out.

[Smartbbboy]

use goop. goop is stretchy and doesnt peel. or use glues with methyl ethyl keytone.