Fencing is obsolete today ! ! !

Fortunately guns are not allowed in fencing tournaments.


"Brian Raab" <kaisers_sun@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8d001dc6.0410032043.26d6094d@posting.google.c om...
Today we have GUNS , so we don't need fencing anymore.

Today we have cars so no need to run,
Today we have car so no need of horses,
Today we have tv so no need to move,
Today we are fatter than ever so move your ass maybe you should try fencing!



"Brian Raab" <kaisers_sun@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:8d001dc6.0410032043.26d6094d@posting.google.c om...
> Today we have GUNS , so we don't need fencing anymore.

We don't need tennis any more, either, while we're at it. Can't do
nearly the damage with a tennis ball that you can with a few
well-placed rounds, now can you?

"Duncan" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message news:<YA68d.19540$223.11776@edtnps89>...
> Fortunately guns are not allowed in fencing tournaments.
>
>
> "Brian Raab" <kaisers_sun@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8d001dc6.0410032043.26d6094d@posting.google.c om...
> Today we have GUNS , so we don't need fencing anymore.

In rec.sport.fencing on 4 Oct 2004 11:25:01 -0700
Delia M. Turner <dmturner@dmturner.org> wrote:
> We don't need tennis any more, either, while we're at it. Can't do
> nearly the damage with a tennis ball that you can with a few
> well-placed rounds, now can you?

Except to an ego.....

Zebee

On 3 Oct 2004 21:43:32 -0700, an orbital mind-control laser caused
kaisers_sun@yahoo.com (Brian Raab) to troll:

>Today we have GUNS , so we don't need fencing anymore.


"A properly balanced sword is the most versatile weapon for close
quarters ever devised. Pistols and guns are all offense, no defense;
close on him fast and a man with a gun can't shoot, he has to stop you
before you reach him. Close on a man carrying a blade and you'll be
spitted like a roast pigeon--unless you have a blade and can use it
beter than he can.
A sword never jams, never has to be reloaded, it is always ready. Its
worst shortcoming is that it takes great skill and patient, loving
practice to gain that skill; it can't be taught to raw recruits in
weeks, nor even months."

-Robert Heinlein, "Glory Road"

-Chris Zakes
Texas

They began to plan people's lives and libraries; they
began to instruct and push about the very people who had
come to Mars to get away from being instructed and ruled
and pushed about.
And it was inevitable that some of those people pushed back…

-Ray Bradbury, "The Martian Chronicles"

In rec.sport.fencing on Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:35:47 GMT
Chris Zakes <moondrgn@earthlink.net> wrote:
> close on him fast and a man with a gun can't shoot, he has to stop you
> before you reach him. Close on a man carrying a blade and you'll be
> spitted like a roast pigeon--unless you have a blade and can use it
> beter than he can.
> -Robert Heinlein, "Glory Road"

heh. People quoting Heinlein about manly men doing manly things make me
giggle really.

he spun a good story, but he didn't have the experience to back it up.

As anyone who has studied Fiore or even Saviolo knows, it isn't quite
that obvious that the guy with the sword wins. Especially if his only
experience has been with a foil. I'd expect Silver would have something
to say about trying to spit someone instead of chopping them up too.

I also find it surprising that Heinlein thought there's some kind of
distance rule with a gun, it can go off quite happily pressed into
someone's stomach, no worries.

Given the amount of time it takes to have a basic clue about how to use
a sword even inside the salle let alone outside, compared to how much it
takes to learn to hit a person sized object spitting distance away, if I
was worried about killing people I'd take the gun every time.

But for sheer enjoyment, swords rule!

Zebee

Zebee writes:
> I also find it surprising that Heinlein thought there's some kind of
> distance rule with a gun, it can go off quite happily pressed into
> someone's stomach, no worries.

He didn't. He was writing a _story_. Statements in stories do not
necessarily represent the author's opinion.
--
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA

In rec.sport.fencing on Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:01:47 -0500
John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org> wrote:
> Zebee writes:
>> I also find it surprising that Heinlein thought there's some kind of
>> distance rule with a gun, it can go off quite happily pressed into
>> someone's stomach, no worries.
>
> He didn't. He was writing a _story_. Statements in stories do not
> necessarily represent the author's opinion.

well, if it's quoted like it means something, it can be treated that
way....

Heinlien never did manage to get over not making it to the real fighting
in WWII, he was compensating ever after.

Zebee

--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
[SNIP]
> Heinlien never did manage to get over not making it to the real fighting
> in WWII, he was compensating ever after.

Source?

And if it's Panshin, don't bother, I lost all respect for him when I
learnt that h had a finished manuscript for "The Universal Pantograph"
and refused to publish it.

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know
whether you were up them with or not
- Barry Humphries

In rec.sport.fencing on Tue, 05 Oct 2004 15:08:38 +1000
Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
> Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> [SNIP]
>> Heinlien never did manage to get over not making it to the real fighting
>> in WWII, he was compensating ever after.
>
> Source?

That he didn't mae it to the front? That's a matter of fact.

That he never got over it?

That's my interpretation base don his work, his con appearances, and
people who knew him.

>
> And if it's Panshin, don't bother, I lost all respect for him when I
> learnt that h had a finished manuscript for "The Universal Pantograph"
> and refused to publish it.

Which is, of course, nothing to do with his ability to be factual and
close to reality in a biography.

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
[SNIP]
> Which is, of course, nothing to do with his ability to be factual and
> close to reality in a biography.
Of course it does.

If he is not capable of publishing the final manuscript in a series, and
is noted primarily for his critical essay on Heinlein (frequently in the
negative sense) how could he be considered reliable in a biographical sense?

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know
whether you were up them with or not
- Barry Humphries

In article <slrncm3st6.4ke.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au>,
Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> wrote:

> Given the amount of time it takes to have a basic clue about how to use
> a sword even inside the salle let alone outside, compared to how much it
> takes to learn to hit a person sized object spitting distance away, if I
> was worried about killing people I'd take the gun every time.
>
> But for sheer enjoyment, swords rule!
>


Do you mean "enojoyment of killing people"? :-0

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

In rec.sport.fencing on Tue, 05 Oct 2004 07:46:31 -0500
Harold Buck <no_one_knows@comcast.net> wrote:
> In article <slrncm3st6.4ke.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au>,
> Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Given the amount of time it takes to have a basic clue about how to use
>> a sword even inside the salle let alone outside, compared to how much it
>> takes to learn to hit a person sized object spitting distance away, if I
>> was worried about killing people I'd take the gun every time.
>>
>> But for sheer enjoyment, swords rule!
>>
>
>
> Do you mean "enojoyment of killing people"? :-0
>

Probably not.. less blood and bodyparts and noise, at least so my
computer games tell me.

But lots more enjoyment practicing to do so, with way more opportunities
for swinging from chandeliers and having conversation.

Face it - when the hero with a gun kills the baddie, it's over in a few
seconds and you get a monosyllabic "make my day". When the hero with a
sword does it, you get serveral minutes of athletic prowess and a good
bit of repartee.

Zebee

"Brian Raab" <kaisers_sun@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8d001dc6.0410032043.26d6094d@posting.google.c om...
> Today we have GUNS , so we don't need fencing anymore.

Actually we have nuclear weapons, so we don't need no stinkin' guns...


--
William Black
------------------
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government

LOL ... Yeah and you have no chance to miss with this. But what would be
more proper here in Quebec. Like policeman's says : We have pepper spray we
don't need guns.... Just before getting killed by an Hell'sangel...



"William Black" <abuse@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:ck103o$u3l$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>
> "Brian Raab" <kaisers_sun@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:8d001dc6.0410032043.26d6094d@posting.google.c om...
> > Today we have GUNS , so we don't need fencing anymore.
>
> Actually we have nuclear weapons, so we don't need no stinkin' guns...
>
>
> --
> William Black
> ------------------
> Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
> is no basis for a system of government
>
>

"Trim Plus Expert" <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote in message
news:IZX8d.73$Am6.3626@news20.bellglobal.com...
> LOL ... Yeah and you have no chance to miss with this. But what would be
> more proper here in Quebec. Like policeman's says : We have pepper spray
we
> don't need guns.... Just before getting killed by an Hell'sangel...

Hell's Angels kill a lot of cops in Quebec do they?

Don't be silly, criminals daft enough to wear uniforms are not a threat to
the body politic...

--
William Black
------------------
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:13:17 GMT, an orbital mind-control laser
caused Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> to write:

>In rec.sport.fencing on Tue, 05 Oct 2004 00:35:47 GMT
>Chris Zakes <moondrgn@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> close on him fast and a man with a gun can't shoot, he has to stop you
>> before you reach him. Close on a man carrying a blade and you'll be
>> spitted like a roast pigeon--unless you have a blade and can use it
>> beter than he can.
>> -Robert Heinlein, "Glory Road"
>
>heh. People quoting Heinlein about manly men doing manly things make me
>giggle really.
>
>he spun a good story, but he didn't have the experience to back it up.

<shrug> He was a medal-winning foil fencer at the U.S. Naval Academy
*and* a medal-winning pistol marksman while he was in the Navy. That's
better than most of us.


>As anyone who has studied Fiore or even Saviolo knows, it isn't quite
>that obvious that the guy with the sword wins. Especially if his only
>experience has been with a foil. I'd expect Silver would have something
>to say about trying to spit someone instead of chopping them up too.
>
>I also find it surprising that Heinlein thought there's some kind of
>distance rule with a gun, it can go off quite happily pressed into
>someone's stomach, no worries.

Granted. But at least part of the equation has to do with the mindset
of the two combatants. If Joe Mugger thinks that just because he has a
gun, his victim must now do everything he says (even though Joe's only
experience with guns is from watching movies and TV) and his victim is
a trained fighter who *does* know how to close, disarm and disable,
then Joe is in for a *big* surprise.

The first thing to do, of course, is make sure the gun is no longer
pointed at you, possibly with a saber-type cut or open-hand parry to
the wrist.

>Given the amount of time it takes to have a basic clue about how to use
>a sword even inside the salle let alone outside, compared to how much it
>takes to learn to hit a person sized object spitting distance away, if I
>was worried about killing people I'd take the gun every time.

As Heinlein said in the original quote, "Its worst shortcoming is that
it takes great skill and patient, loving practice to gain that skill;
it can't be taught to raw recruits in weeks, nor even months."

>But for sheer enjoyment, swords rule!
>
>Zebee

http://albion-swords.com/swords/albi...rd-vivamus.htm

-Chris Zakes
Texas

If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents,
he would promise them missionaries for dinner.

-H.L. Mencken

No I am just kidding but, governement is disarming more and more cops and
the population while theses criminals gets more and more weapons. The
problem is that they do about nothing against them. Okay there are some
arrestations, but not much considering how much they are. Here the Hell's
act a little like the mafia. They no longer wear uniform and control about
every drug deal there is. It's not that I want that much to fight against
drugs but theses guys grow more and more arrogant. They have nothing to do
about the laws, they corrupt cops, judges and there seems to have no way to
stop them. Our law system grow more and more weak. For an example there is a
hockey coach who sexually abused at least 5 childs, was found guilty of all
accusation but he was relesed after two years of jail to finish his sentence
in the scociety. Do you think it's okay? We had the same problem for a guy
who got guilty for premedited murder and consipiracy for murder.He was
relesed after 5 years.... that is outrageous. I say this guy should have
send at least 50 years. But of course our law system works perfectly ......

Thanks I had to talk about it, this will sure help me not getting a gun a
fire on seeing every criminal I see.




"William Black" <abuse@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:ck1pdh$68a$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>
> "Trim Plus Expert" <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote in message
> news:IZX8d.73$Am6.3626@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > LOL ... Yeah and you have no chance to miss with this. But what would be
> > more proper here in Quebec. Like policeman's says : We have pepper spray
> we
> > don't need guns.... Just before getting killed by an Hell'sangel...
>
> Hell's Angels kill a lot of cops in Quebec do they?
>
> Don't be silly, criminals daft enough to wear uniforms are not a threat
to
> the body politic...
>
> --
> William Black
> ------------------
> Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
> is no basis for a system of government
>
>

"Phil Fites" <foxtrot_india_tango_echo_sierra_@at_rogers._dotco m> wrote in
message news:K5udnRU_vf8HXPjcRVn-rQ@rogers.com...

> Did Cooper report on results involving revolvers rather than
> semi-automatic handguns? There are more differences than
> magazine capacity, two of which are typical sight radius and
> double-action versus single-action, both significant factors in
> accuracy.

You're trying to overanalyse what is a very generalised situation.

I imagine that when you're in a gunfight circumstances tend to be very
localised and specific to that particular case.

To try and produce any significant statistical detail is probably futile,
otherwise people involved would be doing so, and they're not...

And please stop top posting...

--
William Black
------------------
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government

"Amy & Joseph Kormann" <ajkormann@monmouth.com> wrote in message
news:ck4kmn$bqp$1@news.monmouth.com...
> William Black wrote:
>
> >Why don't you leave?
> >
> >
> >
>
> Come join us in the USA where we complain about the gvt too, but at
> least we have direct elections for our gang of idiots. None of that
> parliamentary system for us! Give me an Electoral College any day!

The problem with elections is that the government always gets in...

--
William Black
------------------
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
is no basis for a system of government