Olympic Trials?

Do DI nationals serve as the Olympic Trials for fencing, or is it all
based on the rolling point standings?

And how is it determined how many slots we get per event?

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

Harold Buck wrote:
I'm not sure if I'm interpreting the question right but

> Do DI nationals serve as the Olympic Trials for fencing, or is it all
> based on the rolling point standings?

I believe it is on the rolling point standings which include (actually
are determined by) international competitions. Here are the top four for
men's epee - check the USFA website for standings and then look at the
group photo as to who is going.

rank name total points
1 Kelsey, Seth 8,615.0
2 Mattern, Cody 6,268.0
3 Thompson, Soren 5,297.0
4 Viviani, Jan 4,183.0

>
> And how is it determined how many slots we get per event?

This is a curious point. Keith Leichten explained it to me once
between bouts but I swear it made a national election sound
simple/sane by comparison. I "BELIEVE" there is the top national team
from each region (regions are???) plus some individuals?? Aw nuts,
I'll defer to some more knowledgeable soul. But the point that
Keith was onto was that there are some fellows who are going
who are not even at the level of an "A". But are entered
because they are the top (maybe the only) fencer from their
nation/region? Something like the bobsledding team from Jamaica.
The usual crap shoot.

J.

P.S. It's fun to look at the list of epeeists
(or whatever your weapon is)
who are going and be able to say, yeah I've
fenced those guys. How many other sports is
that true of??

Jonathan Jefferies wrote:
>
> Harold Buck wrote:
>
> > And how is it determined how many slots we get per event?
>
> This is a curious point. Keith Leichten explained it to me once
> between bouts but I swear it made a national election sound
> simple/sane by comparison.

It's not *that* complicated, but it isn't exactly what you'd
call simple.

The top 4 teams qualify, based on the world rankings.

There are 4 zones: European, American, Asia-Oceania and Africa.
Ignoring the countries that have already qualified, the next top
team in each zone qualifies.

Countries that have qualified a team can send 3 fencers. Who they
send is totally up to that country.

There are then a further 2 spots for the European, American and
Asia-Oceania zones and 1 spot for the African zone. These are
allocated based on the individual world rankings (ignoring
fencers from the countries who have qualified a team).

Finally, there is a zonal qualifying competition for each zone.
Countries that have not already had any fencers qualify can send
1 fencer to the zonal qualifier and the winner gets a spot, and
also the European 2nd place qualifies.

So, you've got 8 teams (3 fencers each) and 12 individuals.


For women's foil and sabre (no team events), it's different.
The top 8 ranked fencers qualify, then 3 from Europe, 2 from
America, 2 from Asia-Oceania and 1 from Europe. 3/2/2/1 qualify
from the zonal qualifiers making 24 competitors total, with at
most 3 from any one country.

I also suspect Greece gets a few wild cards, but I'm not sure
about that (Australia got 5 wild cards in 2000).


> I "BELIEVE" there is the top national team
> from each region (regions are???) plus some individuals?? Aw nuts,
> I'll defer to some more knowledgeable soul. But the point that
> Keith was onto was that there are some fellows who are going
> who are not even at the level of an "A". But are entered
> because they are the top (maybe the only) fencer from their
> nation/region? Something like the bobsledding team from Jamaica.
> The usual crap shoot.

While it may be that a couple who qualify may not be ranked in the
top 50 in the world because their zone is kind of weak in a particular
weapon (ie the team that qualifies as top in their zone may have a
weaker 3rd fencer), they'll all still be damned good fencers above
the level of your average US "A".
Simon.

> > > And how is it determined how many slots we get per event?
> >

Pretty good explanation of the process and who qualified can be found on
http:www.fencing.ca -- click on Fening to open the website in English, and
then select "Athens 2004" from the left-hand list.

For those Canadians or ex-Canadians, this is probably the strongest
representation that we've ahd for eyars, with some solid medal chances.

Div. I Nationals were 'advertised' to the media as the Olympic Trials,
but selection where there is a full team is entirely based on point
standings. The only slot that wasn't locked up prior to Atlanta was the
alternate for the Men's Foil Team (Greg Chang got it with his 3rd place
finish). If a full team wasn't qualified, then individuals may qualify
from FIE (not USFA) point standings or through the Zonal Qualifying
tournament.

Craig Harkins has an article at Fencing.net (in the News section) that
gives a good overview of the qualification criteria and all of the teams
and individuals who have earned berths. The upshot is that the US has
full teams going for Men's Foil (Dan Kellner, Jon Tiomkin, Jed Dupree,
alt. Greg Chang), Men's Sabre (Keeth Smart, Ivan Lee, Jason Rogers, alt.
Tim Morehouse), and Men's Epee (Cody Mattern, Seth Kelsey, Soren
Thompson, alt. Jan Viviani), all based on being the highest-standing
teams in the Americas Zones. There two individuals qualified for Women's
Sabre (Sada Jacobsen based on being #1 on the World FIE standings and
Emily Jacobsen based on being the highest FIE standing in the Americas
zone after Sada), and one individual each in Women's Foil (Erinn Smart)
and Women's Epee (Kamara James) based on Americas zone point standings.

For the other nations in the Anglophone world (Anglo-/Franco-phone in
the case of Canada, of course), qualified fencers are:

Canada:
-Full Team for Women's Epee from Zonal team standing
(Sharraine Mckay, Catherine Dunette, 3rd and alt. slots TBD)
-Josh McGuire for Men's Foil from Zonal point standing
-Michel Boulos for Men's Sabre from Zonal point standing

UK:
-Richard Kruse for Men's Foil from the Zonal Quals
- Louise Bond-Williams for Women's Sabre from the Zonal Quals

Oz:
- Frank Bartolillo for Men's Foil from Zonal point standing
- Seamus Robinson for Men's Epee from Zonal point standing
-Evelyn Halls for Women;s Epee from Zonal point standing

New Zealand:
-Jessica Beer from the Zonal Quals

-Dave
Harold Buck wrote:

>Do DI nationals serve as the Olympic Trials for fencing, or is it all
>based on the rolling point standings?
>
>And how is it determined how many slots we get per event?
>
>--Harold Buck
>
>
>"I used to rock and roll all night,
> and party every day.
> Then it was every other day. . . ."
> -Homer J. Simpson
>
>