Fencing Shop Australia

Hi,

I'm Looking for one or more shop about fencing in australia.

Thank you.

neotrade wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm Looking for one or more shop about fencing in australia.
>
> Thank you.
>
In Melbourne (Richmond), Aladdin, <http://www.aladdinsports.com.au>

Cheers,
Gary B-)

--
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Armful of chairs: Something some people would not know
whether you were up them with or not
- Barry Humphries

Fioretto Fencing Club has a shop, but it's only useful if you're in
melbourne, as we don't ship.

http://www.geocities.com/fioretto2/

J

> I'm Looking for one or more shop about fencing in australia.

On Tue, 4 May 2004 19:47:07 +1000, an orbital mind-control laser
caused "Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> to write:

>In news:4097340e$0$19876$2c56edd9@news.cablerocket.co m,
>Jonathan Jefferies <jonathanjefferies@alamedanet.net> Quoth The Raven:
>> VoidRoamer wrote:
>>> The gentleman who runs the Amateur Fencers Support Group in Brisbane
>>> has some cheap but reasonably decent Chinese gear. The type of mask
>>> he sold me apparently passed the FIE punch test but because the bib
>>> is not Kevlar cannot be approved. My foil lasted nearly 2 years of
>>> regular use before finally cracking.
>>>
>> Not to rain on anyone's parade and admittedly I don't
>> know a thing about the difficulties of obtaining supplies
>> down under, but my experience with chinese made equipment,
>> though limited, strongly suggests staying away from it.
>>
>> Can anyone counter my basic instincts on this issue
>> with other observations? Noting that Void seems to
>> feel he got a lot of usage out of his foil.
>>
>> Jonathan
>
>I'm not sure of the origin of this story, nor what mask he was wearing, but
>I just heard today a fencer was stabbed through his mask, through his eye
>and into his brain, killing him. surely if someone suspects the quality of a
>mask, they would definitely replace it and only wear top grade items of
>protection?


That sounds like Vladimir Smirnov, who was killed at the 1982 World
Championships in Rome. He was a top-level Russian fencer and,
presumably, would have had top-level equipment.

This *was* back in the days when fencing masks only had to withstand a
7-kilo punch test; Smirnov's death was a major reason why 12-kilo
masks were developed. Were the Chinese making fencing masks in 1982?
Possibly. Were they exporting them? I strongly doubt it.

-Chris Zakes
Texas

I love my country. It's my government I fear.

Richard Cullinan wrote:
>
> Not anymore! :-)
>
> As luck would have it I was in the process of updating the page. The new
> page is now up and running.

In the interests of up-to-date information, can you change the
links for Melbourne University Fencing Club to:

email: fencing@musa.net.au
Web: http://fencing.musa.net.au/
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
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> Well, that has happened in the early days when the masks were
> more like window screen. I would hesitate to attribute this to
> chinese made masks without specifics. For instance - as reported
> here before - I find the Leon Paul plain iron masks last very well.
> The reason being that the steel strands are woven with deep bends
> that lock the strands in place.

That would describe my Chinese mask accurately. The threads are also
very thick. I could probably belt it face on with a mallet with
little effect.

> Sounds like the chinese stuff hasn't been on the market long
> enough for us to really know. And too if you're going to be
> in the game and not just recreationally then buying better
> grade equipment makes a lot more sense. But I have seen
> coaches/salles buy beginner equipment based on cost and
> wondered about the implications.

I suppose it depends entirely on the manufacturer. The gentleman who
runs the support group in Brisbane actually visited the manufacturer
when he was touring in China. The present problem with a lot of
Chinese equipment is that they do not have established labels like
many other companies do so it is very hard to identify the source.
Another big problem is that a few of the more unscrupulous ones
duplicate the logos of competitors (not specific to fencing) in order
to infiltrate their markets. I remember watching a documentary about
a South Korean family sewing needle business that has been almost run
into the ground because a particular Chinese exporter duplicated
their product line, label, and packaging and sold it under the
family's name. Such a problem I guess would be more significant in
some countries over others.

In newsrag90pbm2nj0pr2td7tb80v3muk9u71jd@4ax.com,
Chris Zakes <moondrgn@austin.rr.com> Quoth The Raven:
> On Tue, 4 May 2004 19:47:07 +1000, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused "Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> to write:
>
>> In news:4097340e$0$19876$2c56edd9@news.cablerocket.co m,
>> Jonathan Jefferies <jonathanjefferies@alamedanet.net> Quoth The
>> Raven:
>>> VoidRoamer wrote:
>>>> The gentleman who runs the Amateur Fencers Support Group in
>>>> Brisbane has some cheap but reasonably decent Chinese gear. The
>>>> type of mask he sold me apparently passed the FIE punch test but
>>>> because the bib is not Kevlar cannot be approved. My foil lasted
>>>> nearly 2 years of regular use before finally cracking.
>>>>
>>> Not to rain on anyone's parade and admittedly I don't
>>> know a thing about the difficulties of obtaining supplies
>>> down under, but my experience with chinese made equipment,
>>> though limited, strongly suggests staying away from it.
>>>
>>> Can anyone counter my basic instincts on this issue
>>> with other observations? Noting that Void seems to
>>> feel he got a lot of usage out of his foil.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>
>> I'm not sure of the origin of this story, nor what mask he was
>> wearing, but I just heard today a fencer was stabbed through his
>> mask, through his eye and into his brain, killing him. surely if
>> someone suspects the quality of a mask, they would definitely
>> replace it and only wear top grade items of protection?
>
>
> That sounds like Vladimir Smirnov, who was killed at the 1982 World
> Championships in Rome. He was a top-level Russian fencer and,
> presumably, would have had top-level equipment.
>
> This *was* back in the days when fencing masks only had to withstand a
> 7-kilo punch test; Smirnov's death was a major reason why 12-kilo
> masks were developed. Were the Chinese making fencing masks in 1982?
> Possibly. Were they exporting them? I strongly doubt it.
>
> -Chris Zakes
> Texas
>
> I love my country. It's my government I fear.

the story I heard was very recent

--
Black holes are where God divided by zero.

Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me

Highlandish wrote:
>
> In newsrag90pbm2nj0pr2td7tb80v3muk9u71jd@4ax.com,
> Chris Zakes <moondrgn@austin.rr.com> Quoth The Raven:
> >
> > > I'm not sure of the origin of this story, nor what mask he was
> > > wearing, but I just heard today a fencer was stabbed through his
> > > mask, through his eye and into his brain, killing him. surely if
> > > someone suspects the quality of a mask, they would definitely
> > > replace it and only wear top grade items of protection?
> >
> > That sounds like Vladimir Smirnov, who was killed at the 1982 World
> > Championships in Rome. He was a top-level Russian fencer and,
> > presumably, would have had top-level equipment.
> >
> > This *was* back in the days when fencing masks only had to withstand a
> > 7-kilo punch test; Smirnov's death was a major reason why 12-kilo
> > masks were developed. Were the Chinese making fencing masks in 1982?
> > Possibly. Were they exporting them? I strongly doubt it.
> >
>
> the story I heard was very recent

Hmmm...I seem to be chasing you across newsgroups... :-)


I can assure you there is nothing more recent. But your point is
valid - the one bit of equipment you should *never* take chances
with is the mask. Pay the extra money for quality assurance.
Simon.

> In the interests of up-to-date information, can you change the
> links for Melbourne University Fencing Club to:
>
> email: fencing@musa.net.au
> Web: http://fencing.musa.net.au/

Done.

Richard

On Wed, 5 May 2004 21:52:39 +1000, an orbital mind-control laser
caused "Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> to write:

>In newsrag90pbm2nj0pr2td7tb80v3muk9u71jd@4ax.com,
>Chris Zakes <moondrgn@austin.rr.com> Quoth The Raven:
>> On Tue, 4 May 2004 19:47:07 +1000, an orbital mind-control laser
>> caused "Highlandish" <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> to write:

Snippage)

>>> I'm not sure of the origin of this story, nor what mask he was
>>> wearing, but I just heard today a fencer was stabbed through his
>>> mask, through his eye and into his brain, killing him. surely if
>>> someone suspects the quality of a mask, they would definitely
>>> replace it and only wear top grade items of protection?
>>
>>
>> That sounds like Vladimir Smirnov, who was killed at the 1982 World
>> Championships in Rome. He was a top-level Russian fencer and,
>> presumably, would have had top-level equipment.
>>
>> This *was* back in the days when fencing masks only had to withstand a
>> 7-kilo punch test; Smirnov's death was a major reason why 12-kilo
>> masks were developed. Were the Chinese making fencing masks in 1982?
>> Possibly. Were they exporting them? I strongly doubt it.
>>
>> -Chris Zakes
>> Texas

>the story I heard was very recent

Okay, it's possible that there's been another, similar, injury but I'd
like to see some hard documentation on it.

In some circles there's a lot of rumors, friend-of-a-friend stories
and similar nonsense about how "dangerous" fencing is.

-Chris Zakes
Texas

I love my country. It's my government I fear.

In news:40997971.10467C06@unimelb.edu.au,
Simon Summerfield <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> Quoth The Raven:
> Highlandish wrote:
>>
>> In newsrag90pbm2nj0pr2td7tb80v3muk9u71jd@4ax.com,
>> Chris Zakes <moondrgn@austin.rr.com> Quoth The Raven:
>>>
>>>> I'm not sure of the origin of this story, nor what mask he was
>>>> wearing, but I just heard today a fencer was stabbed through his
>>>> mask, through his eye and into his brain, killing him. surely if
>>>> someone suspects the quality of a mask, they would definitely
>>>> replace it and only wear top grade items of protection?
>>>
>>> That sounds like Vladimir Smirnov, who was killed at the 1982 World
>>> Championships in Rome. He was a top-level Russian fencer and,
>>> presumably, would have had top-level equipment.
>>>
>>> This *was* back in the days when fencing masks only had to
>>> withstand a 7-kilo punch test; Smirnov's death was a major reason
>>> why 12-kilo masks were developed. Were the Chinese making fencing
>>> masks in 1982? Possibly. Were they exporting them? I strongly doubt
>>> it.
>>>
>>
>> the story I heard was very recent
>
> Hmmm...I seem to be chasing you across newsgroups... :-)
>
>
> I can assure you there is nothing more recent. But your point is
> valid - the one bit of equipment you should *never* take chances
> with is the mask. Pay the extra money for quality assurance.
> Simon.

LOL, fans of romantic drama often have the same tastes. but I certainly
agree about quality, I am a still pre-training newbie at fencing, I want
Leon Paul equipment but I am afraid to have better equipment than my master
and higher grade students. I have to settle for less, and I need to learn
what I should settle for.

--
I'm so cool, I'm afraid to catch a cold

Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me

Highlandish wrote:
>
> LOL, fans of romantic drama often have the same tastes. but I certainly
> agree about quality, I am a still pre-training newbie at fencing, I want
> Leon Paul equipment but I am afraid to have better equipment than my master
> and higher grade students. I have to settle for less, and I need to learn
> what I should settle for.

A mask is a mask. Unless you buy an FIE mask (not necessary for
a beginner) then no matter what you get you'll just have a newer
mask, not a better one.

I can pretty much guarantee that the overwhelming majority of
those "higher grade" students will have either Leon Paul, Soudet,
or Uhlmann/All Star masks, and any really good fencer will have
an FIE mask - they are compulsaory for any Australian national
level competition.
Simon.

In news:409AFBCC.1BE9901C@unimelb.edu.au,
Simon Summerfield <simonrs@unimelb.edu.au> Quoth The Raven:
> Highlandish wrote:
>>
>> LOL, fans of romantic drama often have the same tastes. but I
>> certainly agree about quality, I am a still pre-training newbie at
>> fencing, I want Leon Paul equipment but I am afraid to have better
>> equipment than my master and higher grade students. I have to settle
>> for less, and I need to learn what I should settle for.
>
> A mask is a mask. Unless you buy an FIE mask (not necessary for
> a beginner) then no matter what you get you'll just have a newer
> mask, not a better one.
>
> I can pretty much guarantee that the overwhelming majority of
> those "higher grade" students will have either Leon Paul, Soudet,
> or Uhlmann/All Star masks, and any really good fencer will have
> an FIE mask - they are compulsaory for any Australian national
> level competition.
> Simon.

is there a good all round mask for rapier, epee and foil?

--
My girlfriend said I never listen to her, or something ...

Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me

In rec.sport.fencing on Fri, 7 May 2004 23:08:56 +1000
Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
> is there a good all round mask for rapier, epee and foil?
>


Yes, any 12kg mask. If you need heavier than that for rapier, you and
your opponents really need to work on your distance.

If you are including percissive cuts to the back of the head, I suggest
adding some padding at the back of the head, but you shouldn't need more
than that if you are cutting correctly.

Zebee

--
Zebee Johnstone (zebee@zip.com.au), proud holder of
aus.motorcycles Poser Permit #1.
"Motorcycles are like peanuts... who can stop at just one?"

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In rec.sport.fencing on Fri, 7 May 2004 23:08:56 +1000
> Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>is there a good all round mask for rapier, epee and foil?

> Yes, any 12kg mask. If you need heavier than that for rapier, you and
> your opponents really need to work on your distance.
>
> If you are including percissive cuts to the back of the head, I suggest
> adding some padding at the back of the head, but you shouldn't need more
> than that if you are cutting correctly.
>

Doesn't electric saber require a conductive mask while foil
requires that the mask not conduct.

For Epee of course it doesn't matter. That is unless you
connect the mask to the weapon ground.

J.

Jonathan Jefferies wrote:

> Doesn't electric saber require a conductive mask while foil
> requires that the mask not conduct.

Yep.

> For Epee of course it doesn't matter. That is unless you
> connect the mask to the weapon ground.

Actually, for épée it does matter, because the blade (and guard, of course)
is grounded, so if you hit with the point but also create a short circuit
between the tip and the blade, you'll ground the hit.

Short answer is be prepared to pay around the $300 mark for a decent mask,
then take good care of it. If you want to fence sabre in competition, be
prepared to pay more and have it last for less time as the lamé bib will die
before the mesh does.


- andrewh

In news:slrnc9nsco.qj3.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au,
Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> Quoth The Raven:
> In rec.sport.fencing on Fri, 7 May 2004 23:08:56 +1000
> Highlandish <ckreskay_cussin@dodo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> is there a good all round mask for rapier, epee and foil?
>>
>
>
> Yes, any 12kg mask. If you need heavier than that for rapier, you and
> your opponents really need to work on your distance.
>
> If you are including percissive cuts to the back of the head, I
> suggest adding some padding at the back of the head, but you
> shouldn't need more than that if you are cutting correctly.
>
> Zebee

excellent, thank you!

--
A drunk person's words are a sober person's thoughts.

Take out the CUSSIN to reply to me

andrewh wrote:
>
> Short answer is be prepared to pay around the $300 mark for a decent mask,
> then take good care of it.

No foil/epee mask costs that much. Even if you go for the most
expensive FIE mask (the Leon Paul one as far as I know), you'll
only be paying about A$280. A basic, insulated one is less than
A$200. If you pay more than that you're being majorly ripped off.
Simon.

The reason for this accident that i heard, altough it could be a
rumor: The Rusian fencers where getting top equipment from the
goverment, but they kept on using their old equipment and sold the
newer equipment while travelling, making some very valuable dolars.

So, bottom line, the mask he used was a used and rusty one, altough he
had acces to high quality gear...

Stijn

> >> That sounds like Vladimir Smirnov, who was killed at the 1982 World
> >> Championships in Rome. He was a top-level Russian fencer and,
> >> presumably, would have had top-level equipment.

On 1 Jun 2004 01:20:22 -0700, an orbital mind-control laser caused
jonsquire2000@hotmail.com (Jon S.) to write:

I had written:

>> >> That sounds like Vladimir Smirnov, who was killed at the 1982 World
>> >> Championships in Rome. He was a top-level Russian fencer and,
>> >> presumably, would have had top-level equipment.


>The reason for this accident that i heard, altough it could be a
>rumor: The Rusian fencers where getting top equipment from the
>goverment, but they kept on using their old equipment and sold the
>newer equipment while travelling, making some very valuable dolars.
>
>So, bottom line, the mask he used was a used and rusty one, altough he
>had acces to high quality gear...
>
>Stijn

I suppose that's possible, but his mask would *still* have had to pass
inspection before the tournament. Would a rusty, substandard mask pass
inspection at the World Championship? I'm not familiar with how strict
these things are.

-Chris Zakes
Texas

There are no dangerous weapons, there are only dangerous men.

-Sgt, Zim in "Starship Troopers" by Robert Heinlein