not tall enough

[suregrip]

I need advice! I'm an older fencer that fell in love with epee, but many of my opponents tower over me. I end up running into their blade a lot. I am working on binding the blade, but this is all sort of new to me. Does anyone with experience in epee have any advice they can give?

[lochinvar]

Advice: Don't go for the body. Go for the wrist.

When you think about it, tall epee fencers have no advantage--if you take advantage of the fact that the arm and wrist are valid target.

Regardless of height, the enemy's target is no closer nor farther than just behind the bell of his/her weapon. An opponent with a longer reach just brings his/her target that much closer to your point.

I assume that you are moving over from foil, and so tend to go for shots to the body. Forget the body shots. Work on perfecting your point control, and concentrate on wrist and forearm shots. Those targets are always at the same distance, regardless of how tall your opponent is.

[veeco]

Timing is crucial. What you want is put your opponnent in a situation where they will have a bad reflex, and then take advantage of that reflex.

The taller people are, the worse their footwork gets. Use that to your advantage. They will make bigger steps which means their tempos are longer than yours. If you can take 1/2 a tempo on their steps, then you have an attack into their preparation and that's your point, no matter what, because it'll be too late when they react.

Be the quick one.

[Mergs]

I disagree about not going for the body. Binding along with quick footwork can get you inside their point and then the long arms become a liability. I'm 5'4" and was used to fencing a clubmate that was over 6'9". Too bad we can't attach photos or I'd post a picture of the result. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't do as loch suggests and go for the wrist/arm and develop it as well as the binding, beating and invitation to the counter attack and then parry going forward and riposte to the oh so beautifully exposed body! Be still my beating heart! Anyway, remember that those long arms can be a liability when you are close into them!

[suregrip]

I guess this'll take a ton of practice. Actually, I never fenced foil, but I noticed that with epee, each fencer literally gets within inches of the blade to score a touch. I've been trying to bind the blade, but so far my opponents are so strong they simply "unbind" it.

[oiuyt]

suregrip: which club do you fence for in Baltimore?

"unbinding" has nothing to do with strength. Much more with proper finger technique.

Feint an attack, draw their counterattack (yes, all those taller epeeists will LOVE to counter-attack anything you do that looks like an attack), parry the stophit and land the riposte. Turn their strength (greater reach allowing counterattacks) to your advantage.

-B

[neevel]

Distance also plays a crucial role in either escaping a bind or (as the comment about strength seems to indicate) reversing who has control of the blade action.

Control in any type of blade action is mainly about leverage-- if the contact point is your forte to your opponent's foible, then you have a much longer lever arm on their blade (say, 30" or so) then they have on yours (maybe 5"). Regardless of who's got the most hand & arm strength, you have the advantage. However, a well timed widening of the distance, perhaps combined with a small withdrawal of the arm, will shift the contact point back towards your opponent's forte and your foible, reversing the leverage advantage and allowing them to take over control of the action.
It's far more likely that this, rather than any Hans & Franz-esque physique, is what's allowing them to 'unbind'.

-Dave

[damianip]

[quote]Originally posted by suregrip:
<strong>I guess this'll take a ton of practice. Actually, I never fenced foil, but I noticed that with epee, each fencer literally gets within inches of the blade to score a touch. I've been trying to bind the blade, but so far my opponents are so strong they simply "unbind" it.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Mark Holbrow, the maestro at Bucks County Academy of Fencing did a wonderful demonstration of the superiority of leverage versus strength.

He had my son hold an épée with two hands while he held a foil with two fingers. He picked up the épée blade with the forté of the foil, and, despite my son's futile attempts to resist, moved the épée blade wherever he wished.

Ninety-nine times out of one hundred, it's technique, not muscle that will get control of a blade.

Paolo

[Cyranox11]

Hi All
OK yoiu are all correct EXCEPT that tall fencers do enjoy an advantage in epee for 2 reasons:
1. The taller you are, the easier it is to hit the primary targets of hand/wrist/forearm, as the angle for getting the point over the guard is better.
2. Altough the primary tagets are hand/wrist/forearm, these are small and hard to hit (even, or possibly especially, at high level competition the best fencers often miss) and the best route to success is to aim at primary target with the intention of remise-ing to the body, where once again the tall or long armed fencer has an advantage.
Just my 2 cents

[Tomas N]

[quote]Originally posted by veeco:
[QB]The taller people are, the worse their footwork gets.
QB]<hr></blockquote>

I'm not sure I understand the logic. Tall people can't take little steps? I've never noticed any correlation between height and quality of footwork.

Tomas

[suregrip]

I fence at the Baltimore Fencing Center which is fairly new. On February 24th, we have a chocolate open, with the winners getting a box of truffles from a local chocolatier. They'll have fudge, brownies, and other chocolate confections there fore the fencers. Thanks everyone for all of the advice. I think my biggest obstacle now is just a lack of experience. I'll begin working on all of the things that everyone here has said.

[veeco]

[quote]Originally posted by Tomas N:
<strong>

I'm not sure I understand the logic. Tall people can't take little steps? I've never noticed any correlation between height and quality of footwork.

Tomas</strong><hr></blockquote>
Tall people can take little steps. It's just harder for them. 90% of the time I find out that the tall fencers don't have a good footwork. They either make huge steps, or stay on the same spot. They are also slower.

[Sciurus Rex]

Are you certain that you can't be any taller? It sounds as though you've given up hope and have accepted your short fate. Nothing is keeping you from being as tall as the next guy. You just have to try harder.

[A Rud]

Ha Ha you all! i'm over six feet and im only 14!
<img src="graemlins/kane2.gif" border="0" alt="[Camo]" />

[damianip]

[quote]Originally posted by A Rud:
<strong>Ha Ha you all! i'm over six feet and im only 14!
<img src="graemlins/kane2.gif" border="0" alt="[Camo]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>


Busted!!!

It's gotta be Rudnicki.


Paolo

[I see dead people]

Unfortunely the fact is, the top epeeists are all very tall.
1988 Olympic Champion 1999 World ChampionArnd Schmitt 1.9m
2000 Olympic Champion Kolobov Pavel 1.9m+
2001 World Champion MILANOLI Paolo 1.91m
Vanky Peter 1.9m, etc.

It is just like basketable; yes short people can be very good at it, but ultimately, tall people have an unfair advantage.

[ 02-24-2002: Message edited by: I see dead people ]</p>

[damianip]

[quote]Originally posted by I see dead people:
<strong>Unfortunely the fact is, the top epeeists are all very tall.
1988 Olympic Champion 1999 World ChampionArnd Schmitt 1.9m
2000 Olympic Champion Kolobov Pavel 1.9m+
2001 World Champion MILANOLI Paolo 1.91m
Vanky Peter 1.9m, etc.

It is just like basketable; yes short people can be very good at it, but ultimately, tall people have an unfair advantage.

[ 02-24-2002: Message edited by: I see dead people ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hugues Obry: 185 cm.
Remy Delhomme: 178 cm.
Maurizio Randazzo: 180 cm.
Frantz Phillipe: 174 cm.
Eric Boisse: 180 cm.
Jean-François Di Martino: 182 cm.

Etc. etc.

Except for Boisse, all of the above have at least one Silver medal in WCh. team epee.

Paolo

[veeco]

[quote]Originally posted by damianip:
<strong>

Hugues Obry: 185 cm.
Remy Delhomme: 178 cm.
Maurizio Randazzo: 180 cm.
Frantz Phillipe: 174 cm.
Eric Boisse: 180 cm.
Jean-François Di Martino: 182 cm.

Etc. etc.

Except for Boisse, all of the above have at least one Silver medal in WCh. team epee.

Paolo</strong><hr></blockquote>


Eric Boisse is still pretty young, and has had a medal in individuals in Juniors. His father was also an individual gold medallist.

[damianip]

[quote]Originally posted by veeco:
<strong>


Eric Boisse is still pretty young, and has had a medal in individuals in Juniors. His father was also an individual gold medallist.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And his father, with a very distinguished career (Olympic gold twice I think, one team one individual, and world champion three times: twice team, once individual) is only slightly taller than his son.

Paolo

[I see dead people]

All else equal, the fencer with longer reach has the advantage. Period.

According to statistical probability and theoretical fencing physics , I predict that the 2002 Epee World Champion is going to be someone measuring at least 6'2".