Need help with preparation

Dear group,

Ive been fencing for some time now improving footwork, distance control,
riposte feint, but I feel that my preparation are not very well improving.
Can someone lend a hand.
Not that I am not good at it but we always need to have some trainning.

Agleos

Good drills or anything.

In rec.sport.fencing on Wed, 18 Feb 2004 16:46:39 -0500
Trim Plus Expert <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote:
> Dear group,
>
> Ive been fencing for some time now improving footwork, distance control,
> riposte feint, but I feel that my preparation are not very well improving.
> Can someone lend a hand.
> Not that I am not good at it but we always need to have some trainning.
>

What is "preparation" to you?

And how do you know it's not good or isn't improving?

"You can't change what you didn't do". That means that until you know
what you are doing now and why that's not good enough, you can't improve
it.

Take parrying "My parries aren't good enough, how can I make them
better" isn't useful.

But working out why you think that can yield good results.

"people keep hitting me" is a start, but "They keep deceiving me, I
always fall for feints" is even better. It gives you something to
work on.

So speak about what you are doing in positive terms, so you can focus on
what you are doing now, and so you can see what to change.

So... what are you doing now, and what is making you think that's not
working?

Zebee

Trim Plus Expert wrote:

>Dear group,
>
>Ive been fencing for some time now improving footwork, distance control,
>riposte feint, but I feel that my preparation are not very well improving.
>Can someone lend a hand.
>Not that I am not good at it but we always need to have some trainning.
>
>Agleos
>
>Good drills or anything.
>
>

To echo Zeebee's always great advice, it's hard to know without seeing
and a NG can't allow us to see. My best suggestion is to find a coach,
let them see what you're doing and let them help you correct it.

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

"Amy & Joseph Kormann" <ajkormann@monmouth.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:c115mu$517$1@news.monmouth.com...
> Trim Plus Expert wrote:
>
> >Dear group,
> >
> >Ive been fencing for some time now improving footwork, distance control,
> >riposte feint, but I feel that my preparation are not very well
improving.
> >Can someone lend a hand.
> >Not that I am not good at it but we always need to have some trainning.
> >
> >Agleos
> >
> >Good drills or anything.
> >
> >
>
> To echo Zeebee's always great advice, it's hard to know without seeing
> and a NG can't allow us to see. My best suggestion is to find a coach,
> let them see what you're doing and let them help you correct it.
>
> --
> Amy and Joseph Kormann
>

Yeah always hard to tell especially on preparation of attack, bringning the
opponent in a specific situation where I have best chance hitting him and no
chance getting hit. I work on second intentions now offensive and defensive
and this is good. Your advice is good to. My problem is having the opponent
entering my game, kinda difficult.
More tactical than technical. My reaction to a match and situation is good.
However, I feel more like winning in my opponent game than making him play
my game so he can't win.

Id like to explain more but its all I can since my vocabulary is a bit
limited in english.

In rec.sport.fencing on Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:56:36 -0500
Trim Plus Expert <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote:
>
>
> Yeah always hard to tell especially on preparation of attack, bringning the
> opponent in a specific situation where I have best chance hitting him and no
> chance getting hit. I work on second intentions now offensive and defensive

Ahhh.... You want the bad news or the bad news?

THis is called "I need a lot more experience".

These things take years to develop well. Physical skills only take a
short time, mental ones can take years.

Talk to your opponents. Ask if there's things *they* are noticing about
what you do. Are you telegraphing? Do you have a favourite setup?
Your feints aren't quite there? You are too ambitious in your
preliminary setup? The timing's a bit off?

After every bout, write down what happened. What did you try to do,
what worked, what didn't, can you work out what you did do? Remember to
phrase it positively, don't use the words "didn't work" or "not far
enough", you have to write what you did do so you can change it.

Zebee

Thanx Zebee you always got the wise word.
This is sure gonna help me,
exept one thing, it's not bad news having no choice but to gain
experience mean that ill have to fence a lot,
And fencing is great !

Agleos

"Zebee Johnstone" <zebee@zip.com.au> a écrit dans le message de
news:slrnc3a497.hdt.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au...
> In rec.sport.fencing on Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:56:36 -0500
> Trim Plus Expert <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yeah always hard to tell especially on preparation of attack, bringning
the
> > opponent in a specific situation where I have best chance hitting him
and no
> > chance getting hit. I work on second intentions now offensive and
defensive
>
> Ahhh.... You want the bad news or the bad news?
>
> THis is called "I need a lot more experience".
>
> These things take years to develop well. Physical skills only take a
> short time, mental ones can take years.
>
> Talk to your opponents. Ask if there's things *they* are noticing about
> what you do. Are you telegraphing? Do you have a favourite setup?
> Your feints aren't quite there? You are too ambitious in your
> preliminary setup? The timing's a bit off?
>
> After every bout, write down what happened. What did you try to do,
> what worked, what didn't, can you work out what you did do? Remember to
> phrase it positively, don't use the words "didn't work" or "not far
> enough", you have to write what you did do so you can change it.
>
> Zebee

Another thing Id like to ask ya,
I am pretty sure that there is some theory on adversity manipulation in
fencing. But can't find any, I don't need the whole how to stuff but some
guidelines, or else ill have to write it down myself in 40 years,

Using other experience is great, he he he.
Human have always done it, communicating skills.

Agleos


"Zebee Johnstone" <zebee@zip.com.au> a écrit dans le message de
news:slrnc3a497.hdt.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au...
> In rec.sport.fencing on Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:56:36 -0500
> Trim Plus Expert <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yeah always hard to tell especially on preparation of attack, bringning
the
> > opponent in a specific situation where I have best chance hitting him
and no
> > chance getting hit. I work on second intentions now offensive and
defensive
>
> Ahhh.... You want the bad news or the bad news?
>
> THis is called "I need a lot more experience".
>
> These things take years to develop well. Physical skills only take a
> short time, mental ones can take years.
>
> Talk to your opponents. Ask if there's things *they* are noticing about
> what you do. Are you telegraphing? Do you have a favourite setup?
> Your feints aren't quite there? You are too ambitious in your
> preliminary setup? The timing's a bit off?
>
> After every bout, write down what happened. What did you try to do,
> what worked, what didn't, can you work out what you did do? Remember to
> phrase it positively, don't use the words "didn't work" or "not far
> enough", you have to write what you did do so you can change it.
>
> Zebee

In rec.sport.fencing on Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:37:10 -0500
Trim Plus Expert <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote:
> Another thing Id like to ask ya,
> I am pretty sure that there is some theory on adversity manipulation in
> fencing. But can't find any, I don't need the whole how to stuff but some
> guidelines, or else ill have to write it down myself in 40 years,
>

As in patterning people? Getting them to do what you want them to?

that is if you mean "adversary".

I haven't seen any written down, what little I know my fencing master
taught me.

WHich is pretty much "do soemthing, see what they do, use it against
them". And "pattern them - do something twice, then do something a
little different the 3rd time, that gets past their response"

Gaugler devotes about 3 paragraphs to it, which are pretty much "watch
your opponent, find their weaknesses and their favourite tricks and
exploit them".

I think all this means "it's about learning to see what others are up
to", and that's not a skill you can lean from a book really.

Every action in fencing has a counter, most more than one. So if you
find an opponent has a favourite action, or they counter something in
a particular way, then do something to make them perform that action
or counter. That way you know what they are going to do, and know what
the counter for it is.

Zebee

Got it !
It's exactly what Bruce Lee say's and the italian fencing school
Let's call it counter-time or intercepting fist, make them react and use it
against them.
But the hard part, especially against an experimented opponent is, make them
react. I used to train with Jerome Menuera, who last year was in the top 50
world foilist and making a guy like this react is kinda hard but i am sure
there is some theory to be applied here, theory on mislead, like magician,
or react like a negitiator.

Fencing is great.

Agleos

And i sincerely thank you Zebee for your devotement to others,
not a quality to be seen much these days.
I think you should try writing a book on fencing, Your explainning skill is
great, lot better than mine and lots of book ive read so far.


"Zebee Johnstone" <zebee@zip.com.au> a écrit dans le message de
news:slrnc3cr2q.cpm.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au...
> In rec.sport.fencing on Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:37:10 -0500
> Trim Plus Expert <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote:
> > Another thing Id like to ask ya,
> > I am pretty sure that there is some theory on adversity manipulation in
> > fencing. But can't find any, I don't need the whole how to stuff but
some
> > guidelines, or else ill have to write it down myself in 40 years,
> >
>
> As in patterning people? Getting them to do what you want them to?
>
> that is if you mean "adversary".
>
> I haven't seen any written down, what little I know my fencing master
> taught me.
>
> WHich is pretty much "do soemthing, see what they do, use it against
> them". And "pattern them - do something twice, then do something a
> little different the 3rd time, that gets past their response"
>
> Gaugler devotes about 3 paragraphs to it, which are pretty much "watch
> your opponent, find their weaknesses and their favourite tricks and
> exploit them".
>
> I think all this means "it's about learning to see what others are up
> to", and that's not a skill you can lean from a book really.
>
> Every action in fencing has a counter, most more than one. So if you
> find an opponent has a favourite action, or they counter something in
> a particular way, then do something to make them perform that action
> or counter. That way you know what they are going to do, and know what
> the counter for it is.
>
> Zebee

In rec.sport.fencing on Fri, 20 Feb 2004 15:53:07 -0500
Trim Plus Expert <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote:
> But the hard part, especially against an experimented opponent is, make them
> react. I used to train with Jerome Menuera, who last year was in the top 50
> world foilist and making a guy like this react is kinda hard but i am sure
> there is some theory to be applied here, theory on mislead, like magician,
> or react like a negitiator.

Well.. he knows the tricks right? That's why he's where he is.

So watch for him doing it to you, and trick him. Does he pattern you?
Does he do the same thing and when you react use your reaction against
you? So on the 3rd time react differently....


> I think you should try writing a book on fencing, Your explainning skill is
> great, lot better than mine and lots of book ive read so far.

*grin* it's my fencing master. He's brilliant at this sort of thing, I
am just repeating what he says.

Zebee

"Trim Plus Expert" <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote in message
news:FQpZb.15390$d34.1554833@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> Another thing Id like to ask ya,
> I am pretty sure that there is some theory on adversity manipulation in
> fencing. But can't find any, I don't need the whole how to stuff but some
> guidelines, or else ill have to write it down myself in 40 years,

What you're really starting to get into here is second intention and the
other cerebral aspects of fencing.

It doesn't cover it perfectly, and he only covers it as a side issue, but
Nick Evengelita's book "The Inner Game of Fencing" does have some useful
discussion of some of the concepts. It's one of those books where you come
away with the brain hurting at times, but I find it's helpful when I'm
hitting a low point.

One of the best things you can do for manipulating an opponent is improve
your precision. It helps enormously with things like second intention etc.
If you feed your opponent clean fencing actions, they will invariable
respond in a more reliable manner. I think it's the automatic reactions
taking over, since it's a similar motion to the drill exercises you have
with a fencing master. Sloppy actions however will only breed sloppy
actions. If your actions however are clean, the opponent can only respond in
a limited number of ways, and you can use that to lead them down the garden
path.

Richard Cullinan