Lames

Sorry, another question. I'm finally investing in electric equipment. I was
told that if one fences competitively, and between competitions and
practice, one can (most likely) go through 1 or 2 lames a season. Is this
generally true? I'm asking because I am hesitant to invest in a higher
quality Ulhmann lames if it will last as long as a Chinese-made one, i.e. if
I'll have to buy a new one next year.

Also, and I'm sure to be opening a can of worms, but what is the opinion of
Chinese-made fencing gear. Is it fine for local fencing? Does anyone in the
States use it at higher levels or do better fencers just buy Ulhmann,
Allstar, etc.

Just wondering.

In article
<xG2rb.34644$Ec1.2899537@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Y.L." <inane@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Sorry, another question. I'm finally investing in electric equipment. I was
> told that if one fences competitively, and between competitions and
> practice, one can (most likely) go through 1 or 2 lames a season. Is this
> generally true? I'm asking because I am hesitant to invest in a higher
> quality Ulhmann lames if it will last as long as a Chinese-made one, i.e. if
> I'll have to buy a new one next year.

I doubt you'd go through 1-2 a season unless you're fencing 4-5 times a
week, year round, and doing lots out tournaments, but wait for people
like Holly to answer (since she fences saber competitively). If you take
care of it

> Also, and I'm sure to be opening a can of worms, but what is the opinion of
> Chinese-made fencing gear. Is it fine for local fencing? Does anyone in the
> States use it at higher levels or do better fencers just buy Ulhmann,
> Allstar, etc.


Get a stainless steel lame. The Chinese ones failed to stand up to light
use by our high school fencing team, while the stainless ones last years
(they get used 3-4 months out of the year). We haven't had the saber
lames that long--maybe 3-4 years--and some of the Chinese ones are bad
already, but we have stainless foil lames that have lasted 10 years.

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

"Y.L." <inane@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:xG2rb.34644$Ec1.2899537@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

> Sorry, another question. I'm finally investing in electric
> equipment. I was told that if one fences competitively, and between
> competitions and practice, one can (most likely) go through 1 or 2
> lames a season. Is this generally true? I'm asking because I am
> hesitant to invest in a higher quality Ulhmann lames if it will
> last as long as a Chinese-made one, i.e. if I'll have to buy a new
> one next year.

As Harold pointed out, it depends how much you're fencing. It also
depends how well you take care of your lame, and how good a lame it
is. That said, it has definitely NOT been my experience to go through
lames that quickly - the fastest I've worn one out was an inexpensive
foil lame that went through two years of competing and occasional
practice before developing some holes in it.

There is a difference between the low-end and the high-end lames, but
whether it's worth it depends on the individual. Two years ago I
finally caved and bought a nice stainless Uhlmann sabre lame. It's
still in almost-like-new shape and I expect to get at least another 3
years of use out of it. So, it was more expensive than the Chinese
ones, but I'll get my money's worth. It was also worth it to me
because it fit significantly better than the other, cheaper one I was
considering.

> Also, and I'm sure to be opening a can of worms, but what is the
> opinion of Chinese-made fencing gear. Is it fine for local fencing?
> Does anyone in the States use it at higher levels or do better
> fencers just buy Ulhmann, Allstar, etc.

I try to equip myself with the gear that works for me at the least
amount of money possible The Blue Gauntlet lames that I've used
have been of decent quality for the price - for a fencer who doesn't
compete a lot, it's a very good deal, and I routinely recommend them.
I do think the BG sabre mask is the best value out there - I've been
very happy with mine. I've also had good experiences with their
weapons, knickers, jackets, and plastrons. On the other hand, I prefer
my Uhlmann glove, lame, and overglove, and I like Prieur body cords
better.

What works well for me (for lames) is to have a "competition" lame and
a "practice" lame (for both foil and sabre). My practice lame is an
older one that I wore in both practice and competition until it
developed some holes, and wouldn't pass inspection any more. Now I use
it in practice, and save my good, newer lame for competition only,
which extends its lifespan. I also make sure to wash all my lames
regularly.

--Holly

Can't help with the Chinese kit question, but our Leonpaul club lames have
lasted somewhere between five and ten years of constant battering by
novices, and although they could do with a wash, most of them are still
perfectly fine!
Laura

Ive a question about lames and their fit. In foil some people have
these amazingly tailored lames...that is to say their lames seem to
fit them like intestine on a sausage....whilst mine is more like a
lumpy sack for potatoes!!!

Granted, Im a bit lumpy myself. But i have this triplette lame...which
is great...but they seem to run large and have a burlap sack like fit.


Well, its quite possible that my lame wont make me the next fencing
adonis...but right now....my fencing lame just makes me look...well..
lame.

Magni
"Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas"



"Holly E. Ordway" <OUTordwayWITHTHIS@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns942D5FF989DF15439754hjkgfdjio5408@216.196 .97.136>...
> "Y.L." <inane@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
> news:xG2rb.34644$Ec1.2899537@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
> > Sorry, another question. I'm finally investing in electric
> > equipment. I was told that if one fences competitively, and between
> > competitions and practice, one can (most likely) go through 1 or 2
> > lames a season. Is this generally true? I'm asking because I am
> > hesitant to invest in a higher quality Ulhmann lames if it will
> > last as long as a Chinese-made one, i.e. if I'll have to buy a new
> > one next year.
>
> As Harold pointed out, it depends how much you're fencing. It also
> depends how well you take care of your lame, and how good a lame it
> is. That said, it has definitely NOT been my experience to go through
> lames that quickly - the fastest I've worn one out was an inexpensive
> foil lame that went through two years of competing and occasional
> practice before developing some holes in it.
>
> There is a difference between the low-end and the high-end lames, but
> whether it's worth it depends on the individual. Two years ago I
> finally caved and bought a nice stainless Uhlmann sabre lame. It's
> still in almost-like-new shape and I expect to get at least another 3
> years of use out of it. So, it was more expensive than the Chinese
> ones, but I'll get my money's worth. It was also worth it to me
> because it fit significantly better than the other, cheaper one I was
> considering.
>
> > Also, and I'm sure to be opening a can of worms, but what is the
> > opinion of Chinese-made fencing gear. Is it fine for local fencing?
> > Does anyone in the States use it at higher levels or do better
> > fencers just buy Ulhmann, Allstar, etc.
>
> I try to equip myself with the gear that works for me at the least
> amount of money possible The Blue Gauntlet lames that I've used
> have been of decent quality for the price - for a fencer who doesn't
> compete a lot, it's a very good deal, and I routinely recommend them.
> I do think the BG sabre mask is the best value out there - I've been
> very happy with mine. I've also had good experiences with their
> weapons, knickers, jackets, and plastrons. On the other hand, I prefer
> my Uhlmann glove, lame, and overglove, and I like Prieur body cords
> better.
>
> What works well for me (for lames) is to have a "competition" lame and
> a "practice" lame (for both foil and sabre). My practice lame is an
> older one that I wore in both practice and competition until it
> developed some holes, and wouldn't pass inspection any more. Now I use
> it in practice, and save my good, newer lame for competition only,
> which extends its lifespan. I also make sure to wash all my lames
> regularly.
>
> --Holly

In article <a02e0196.0311090606.17e044d5@posting.google.com >,
dmturner@dmturner.org (Delia M. Turner) writes:

>I just bought another Infinity and couldn't remember exactly how you
>double-sewed the seams--do you mean to sew either side of the seam, or
>over the stitching in the seam?

Use a toothpick and push the remainder of the seam so that it is all on one
side, whichever side is easier. This can be done because of the mesh lining.

Then sew another line of stitching about one eighth of an inch away from the
original seam. Sew right through the lining. Don't worry if you can only sew
about half way down the sleeves, the lower part of the sleeve is under less
tension. Worry most about the shoulder seams, the side seams and where the arms
are sewn on (for Sabre lames).

The problem, particularly where the fabric is being pulled, is that the cut
edge of the material frays. And it can fray all the way through the seam
because it is still under tension. With the second line of stitching there is
less tension on the cut edge and the fraying should stop at the second line of
stitching. You can find thread the same color as the Infinity material so the
second line of stitching is not noticeable.

Bill Hall

What do you do with a lame which has gone past it's life-cycle? I have a
copper lame which has a nice greenish tint that won't come out, hence
dead spots. Is there some type of way to recycle it or just fold the
whole thing into the landfill?

Thanks.

--
Amy and Joseph Kormann

"Paolo Damiani" <paolo.damiani@cinghiale.removethis.org> wrote in
message news:3fae74fa$1_4@news.buzzardnews.com
> Please ignore Mr. Goldgar.
>
> Equipment fails merely by being within twenty feet of him.
>
> It's some kind of trick which enables him to accrue underserved
> touches, bouts and tournament wins. ;~)
>
> Also, don't lend him any gear as it will immediately, and
> spontaneously, combust.

Of course you realize, Paolo, this means war?

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

>
>"Dirk Goldgar" <dgoldgar@NOalumni.SPAMprinceton.edu> wrote in message
>news:qVtrb.2$r03.51726478@news.netcarrier.net.. .
>> "Mark C. Orton" <ortonmc+rsf@erols.com> wrote in message
>> news:3fadb2bc.47149727@news.verizon.net
>> >
>> > I got my Uhlmann foil lame in 1999. It's still perfectly fine, and I
>> > expect it to last several more years. I find it difficult to imagine
>> > what kind of abuse one would have to subject a lame to to wear it out
>> > in half a year.
>>
>> You amaze me. I've never had a foil lame, from any manufacturer
>> including Uhlmann, last more than a year without developing dead spots.
>> And I assure you I don't subject my lames to "abuse", unless you count
>> fencing in them 3-4 days a week as abuse. I can't imagine a lame
>> lasting 5 or more years under what I'd call normal use.
>>
>> I've noticed considerable variation reported in the life expectancy of
>> lames, even adjusting for usage, and I think it may have to do with the
>> specific chemical makeup of the wearer's sweat. I think some people
>> just have more corrosive sweat than others. I've noticed, for example,
>> that the linings of my lames tend to bleed dye onto my jacket, where
>> other people wearing the same brand of lame don't have this problem.
>> And yes, I do wash my lame, using approved procedures -- but I haven't
>> noticed that making any difference in the lame's life expectancy.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Dirk Goldgar
>>
>> (to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)
>>
>>
>
>Please ignore Mr. Goldgar.
>
>Equipment fails merely by being within twenty feet of him.
>
>It's some kind of trick which enables him to accrue underserved touches,
>bouts and tournament wins. ;~)
>
>Also, don't lend him any gear as it will immediately, and spontaneously,
>combust.
>
>Paolo
>
So true, so true... As the person who does all of his armory, including
patching his lame, I have to say that I can't think of anyone that's harder on
his equipment... except for one young fencer who moved to California. (Sorry,
Dirk... <g>)

We have more "Franken-lames" at our club than ones in good condition. I
haven't been in the sport that long (about 4 1/2 years), but it seems like the
Triplette non-metallic lames last a lot longer than any of the metallic ones.
I agree that they don't fit as well, but I've tailored quite a few of them to
make them fit better (especially for the women.) They're no harder to alter
than any other type of lined clothing.

Debbie B.

On 11/9/03 15:02, in article bom6ki$13v$1@news.monmouth.com, "Amy & Joseph
Kormann" <ajkormann@monmouth.com> wrote:

> What do you do with a lame which has gone past it's life-cycle? I have a
> copper lame which has a nice greenish tint that won't come out, hence
> dead spots. Is there some type of way to recycle it or just fold the
> whole thing into the landfill?

Turn it into an epee lame by slicing out the spots that aren't dead yet to
patch your other lames with, and toss the rest. If the zipper's still good,
save that and send it to me, as I curse zippers on lames more often than I
make them go dead...

In article <20031109210100.01555.00000460@mb-m11.aol.com>, fencer91162@aol.com
(Fencer91162) writes:

> but it seems like the
>Triplette non-metallic lames last a lot longer than any of the metallic ones.
>

When you say last do you mean they will pass the 5 ohm armorer's test longer or
they are useful for practice longer?

Our New England Division has the nasty habit of testing lames before
qualifiers, it makes a lot more business for the vendors.

Bill Hall

>
>> but it seems like the
>>Triplette non-metallic lames last a lot longer than any of the metallic
>ones.
>>
>
>When you say last do you mean they will pass the 5 ohm armorer's test longer
>or
>they are useful for practice longer?
>

Both, in my experience.

>Our New England Division has the nasty habit of testing lames before
>qualifiers, it makes a lot more business for the vendors.
>
>Bill Hall
>
>
If I remember correctly, lames were tested at Sectionals last year, but not
Divisionals. I try to remind everyone that is going to any type of qualifier
that just because a lame seems okay around the club, doesn't necessarily mean
that it will pass the armorer's test. I've had people give me lames that they
thought "only had one small dead spot" and have had to put 10" x 10" patches on
to make them legal. Of course, I do this *after* I give them a bath to remove
any salts.

Debbie B.

In article <20031110161906.19613.00000845@mb-m01.aol.com>,
fencer91162@aol.com (Fencer91162) wrote:

> >Our New England Division has the nasty habit of testing lames before
> >qualifiers, it makes a lot more business for the vendors.
> >
> >Bill Hall
> >
> >
> If I remember correctly, lames were tested at Sectionals last year, but not
> Divisionals. I try to remind everyone that is going to any type of qualifier
> that just because a lame seems okay around the club, doesn't necessarily mean
> that it will pass the armorer's test. I've had people give me lames that
> they
> thought "only had one small dead spot" and have had to put 10" x 10" patches
> on
> to make them legal. Of course, I do this *after* I give them a bath to
> remove
> any salts.


Wow! I've never had an armorer give ME a bath at a competition!

--Harold Buck


"I used to rock and roll all night,
and party every day.
Then it was every other day. . . ."
-Homer J. Simpson

"Harold Buck" <no_one_knows@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:no_one_knows-328662.17291810112003@comcast.ash.giganews.com
> In article <20031110161906.19613.00000845@mb-m01.aol.com>,
> fencer91162@aol.com (Fencer91162) wrote:
>
>>> Our New England Division has the nasty habit of testing lames before
>>> qualifiers, it makes a lot more business for the vendors.
>>>
>>> Bill Hall
>>>
>>>
>> If I remember correctly, lames were tested at Sectionals last year,
>> but not Divisionals. I try to remind everyone that is going to any
>> type of qualifier that just because a lame seems okay around the
>> club, doesn't necessarily mean that it will pass the armorer's test.
>> I've had people give me lames that they
>> thought "only had one small dead spot" and have had to put 10" x 10"
>> patches on
>> to make them legal. Of course, I do this *after* I give them a bath
>> to remove
>> any salts.
>
>
> Wow! I've never had an armorer give ME a bath at a competition!

I guess you're not an old salt.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

"Dirk Goldgar" <dgoldgar@NOalumni.SPAMprinceton.edu> wrote in message
news:VbCrb.4$lQ3.87971884@news.netcarrier.net...
> (snip!!!!)
>
> Of course you realize, Paolo, this means war?
>
Well, now seems as good a time as any since you're ailing.

I'll take any advantage I can....

"If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to
be weak, that he may grow arrogant."

Paolo

--
-)-------

"He is a man of splendid abilities but utterly corrupt. He shines and stinks
like rotten mackerel by moonlight."

In article <GWVrb.1$TX7.14419075@news.netcarrier.net>, "Dirk Goldgar"
<dgoldgar@NOalumni.SPAMprinceton.edu> writes:

>I guess you're not an old salt.

Actually, I am an old salt. Three years, eleven months and five days, but who
counts. Three years on sea duty also.

Bill Hall

Different manufacturers have a different standard cut to their uniforms. Allstar uniforms and lames, for example,
have a fair amount of taper in the body and will look good on those who have yet to lose the battle of the bulge.
Uhlmann has a bit less taper in their cut, Santelli less still, while others (like Triplette) have no taper at all (which is why
their stuff
looks like a potato sack on anybody whose waist measurement is less that their shoulder measurment).

-Dave

magni wrote:

> Ive a question about lames and their fit. In foil some people have
> these amazingly tailored lames...that is to say their lames seem to
> fit them like intestine on a sausage....whilst mine is more like a
> lumpy sack for potatoes!!!
>
> Granted, Im a bit lumpy myself. But i have this triplette lame...which
> is great...but they seem to run large and have a burlap sack like fit.
>
> Well, its quite possible that my lame wont make me the next fencing
> adonis...but right now....my fencing lame just makes me look...well..
> lame.
>
> Magni
> "Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas"
>
> "Holly E. Ordway" <OUTordwayWITHTHIS@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Xns942D5FF989DF15439754hjkgfdjio5408@216.196 .97.136>...
> > "Y.L." <inane@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
> > news:xG2rb.34644$Ec1.2899537@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
> >
> > > Sorry, another question. I'm finally investing in electric
> > > equipment. I was told that if one fences competitively, and between
> > > competitions and practice, one can (most likely) go through 1 or 2
> > > lames a season. Is this generally true? I'm asking because I am
> > > hesitant to invest in a higher quality Ulhmann lames if it will
> > > last as long as a Chinese-made one, i.e. if I'll have to buy a new
> > > one next year.
> >
> > As Harold pointed out, it depends how much you're fencing. It also
> > depends how well you take care of your lame, and how good a lame it
> > is. That said, it has definitely NOT been my experience to go through
> > lames that quickly - the fastest I've worn one out was an inexpensive
> > foil lame that went through two years of competing and occasional
> > practice before developing some holes in it.
> >
> > There is a difference between the low-end and the high-end lames, but
> > whether it's worth it depends on the individual. Two years ago I
> > finally caved and bought a nice stainless Uhlmann sabre lame. It's
> > still in almost-like-new shape and I expect to get at least another 3
> > years of use out of it. So, it was more expensive than the Chinese
> > ones, but I'll get my money's worth. It was also worth it to me
> > because it fit significantly better than the other, cheaper one I was
> > considering.
> >
> > > Also, and I'm sure to be opening a can of worms, but what is the
> > > opinion of Chinese-made fencing gear. Is it fine for local fencing?
> > > Does anyone in the States use it at higher levels or do better
> > > fencers just buy Ulhmann, Allstar, etc.
> >
> > I try to equip myself with the gear that works for me at the least
> > amount of money possible The Blue Gauntlet lames that I've used
> > have been of decent quality for the price - for a fencer who doesn't
> > compete a lot, it's a very good deal, and I routinely recommend them.
> > I do think the BG sabre mask is the best value out there - I've been
> > very happy with mine. I've also had good experiences with their
> > weapons, knickers, jackets, and plastrons. On the other hand, I prefer
> > my Uhlmann glove, lame, and overglove, and I like Prieur body cords
> > better.
> >
> > What works well for me (for lames) is to have a "competition" lame and
> > a "practice" lame (for both foil and sabre). My practice lame is an
> > older one that I wore in both practice and competition until it
> > developed some holes, and wouldn't pass inspection any more. Now I use
> > it in practice, and save my good, newer lame for competition only,
> > which extends its lifespan. I also make sure to wash all my lames
> > regularly.
> >
> > --Holly

"Fencerbill" <fencerbill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031110221641.11891.00002164@mb-m11.aol.com
> In article <GWVrb.1$TX7.14419075@news.netcarrier.net>, "Dirk Goldgar"
> <dgoldgar@NOalumni.SPAMprinceton.edu> writes:
>
>> I guess you're not an old salt.
>
> Actually, I am an old salt. Three years, eleven months and five days,
> but who counts. Three years on sea duty also.

Are you angling for a bath from Debbie B.?

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

"Paolo Damiani" <paolo.damiani@cinghiale.removethis.org> wrote in
message news:3fb03591_1@news.buzzardnews.com
>
> "If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him.
> Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant."

If your opponent has to resort to subterfuges like these, just hit him.

--

Dirk Goldgar

(to reply via e-mail, remove NOSPAM from address)

In article <bN9sb.5$am4.65030272@news.netcarrier.net>, "Dirk Goldgar"
<dgoldgar@NOalumni.SPAMprinceton.edu> writes:

>Are you angling for a bath from Debbie B.?

Not if My wife finds out.