Question on Bayonet Body Cords

Hello,

Is there difference between bayonet body cords used in foil and saber? I
looked in a catalogue and there were listings for bayonet body cords for
foil and saber -- they seem to be the same body cords and are made by the
same maker but one costs $19 and the later, $13. I know you two prong body
cords for foil and saber are one and the same. Thanks.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 09:16:50 GMT, "Y.L." <inane@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

> Is there difference between bayonet body cords used in foil and saber?

No.

-Mark-

In article <6w2rb.34611$Ec1.2897701@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Y.L."
<inane@worldnet.att.net> writes:

>Is there difference between bayonet body cords used in foil and saber? I
>looked in a catalogue and there were listings for bayonet body cords for
>foil and saber -- they seem to be the same body cords and are made by the
>same maker but one costs $19 and the later, $13. I know you two prong body
>cords for foil and saber are one and the same. Thanks

Speaking as an experienced armorer, yes they are the same.

One difference is that it doesn't make any difference in Sabre if the two lines
to the weapon are reversed. It does of course make a difference in Foil.

When I have failed body cords because the lines are reversed, the fencers have
sometimes told me it doesn't make any difference, they are fencing Sabre. But
what if they loan this approved body cord to a Foil fencer?

Bill Hall

What do you mean my reversing the lines?



"Fencerbill" <fencerbill@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031108223223.07346.00001648@mb-m26.aol.com...
> In article <6w2rb.34611$Ec1.2897701@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Y.L."
> <inane@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> >Is there difference between bayonet body cords used in foil and saber? I
> >looked in a catalogue and there were listings for bayonet body cords for
> >foil and saber -- they seem to be the same body cords and are made by the
> >same maker but one costs $19 and the later, $13. I know you two prong
body
> >cords for foil and saber are one and the same. Thanks
>
> Speaking as an experienced armorer, yes they are the same.
>
> One difference is that it doesn't make any difference in Sabre if the two
lines
> to the weapon are reversed. It does of course make a difference in Foil.
>
> When I have failed body cords because the lines are reversed, the fencers
have
> sometimes told me it doesn't make any difference, they are fencing Sabre.
But
> what if they loan this approved body cord to a Foil fencer?
>
> Bill Hall

In article <rIkrb.221571$0v4.16700159@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Y.L." <inane@worldnet.att.net> writes:

>What do you mean my reversing the lines?

The tip of a bayonet (Leon Paul type) plug goes to the B, or center line of the
three prong plug end of the body cord. The outer part of the plug goes to the
C, or "lonely", pin.

For Foil, the B line is shorted to the C line at the tip. If the tip is
depressed off target, the machine sees an open to the prieviously closed, or
complete, circuit and turns on a white light. If the tip is depressed on the
lame, the machine sees an open AND a connection of the C line to the opponent's
lame (or his A line) and turrns on a valid light.

If the lines are reversed, the machine sees an open but never sees the
connection to the opponents lame. So you can't get a valid light.

In Sabre, the machine only worries about seeing the C line having a connection
to the opponent's lame. If there is contact there is a valid light.

But also in Sabre, they worry about whether the C line could be open so, on the
weapon, they short the C line to the B line. This completes a loop through the
C line to the weapon and back on the B line. If this loop opens there will be a
white light.

But you say you see Sabre fencers continuing to fence even though they have a
white light on.

IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER IT IS THE B LINE OR C LINE WHICH IS CAUSING THE OPEN.

If the B line is open, the C line can still see the lame and everything is OK.

In a tournament, the referee should make the fencer change his body cord and
give him a Yello card.

But in practice these can be sometimes ignored.

In practice, what you want to do is to get the white light to stay on and then
test to see if valid touches will still be recorded. If they can, fix it later.

This is also related to why you don't want to use a paper clip around the B and
C lines on either end of the floor cord or where the fencers body cord plugs
into the fencer end of the reel cable. If the fencers C line then opens,
touches won't be recorded, no one knows why and people get very frustrated.

Bill Hall

fencerbill@aol.com (Fencerbill) wrote


> In Sabre, the machine only worries about seeing the C line having a connection
> to the opponent's lame. If there is contact there is a valid light.
> But also in Sabre, they worry about whether the C line could be open so, on
> the weapon, they short the C line to the B line. This completes a loop
> through the C line to the weapon and back on the B line. If this loop opens
> there will be a white light.
>
> But you say you see Sabre fencers continuing to fence even though they have a
> white light on.
>
> IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER IT IS THE B LINE OR C LINE WHICH IS CAUSING THE OPEN.

And yet, my club has a Triplette box which will so distinguish between
lines...and an newer box ( I forget the name, it's the little black
plastic one that plays "Daisy" ) which functions no matter which it
is. It is very sensitive to white lights, but registers touches
despite them. Very confusing.

In article <dc7987e.0311091634.5b3cec5f@posting.google.com> ,
trebuchet30303@yahoo.com (William Marshal) writes:

>And yet, my club has a Triplette box which will so distinguish between
>lines...and an newer box ( I forget the name, it's the little black
>plastic one that plays "Daisy" ) which functions no matter which it
>is. It is very sensitive to white lights, but registers touches
>despite them. Very confusing.

Our Division has been blessed by a scarcity of Triplette boxes. The other
sounds like it may be an Eigertek. Which may well work by contact with either
line, I am impressed by the people who designed it. But I have no personal
experience with Eigerteks either.

Bill Hall

[smeric28]

even though there are no differences between the actuall cords.
you should know that the socket in a saber must have the b line shorted to the blade.

Originally Posted by Y.L.

Hello,

Is there difference between bayonet body cords used in foil and saber? I
looked in a catalogue and there were listings for bayonet body cords for
foil and saber -- they seem to be the same body cords and are made by the
same maker but one costs $19 and the later, $13. I know you two prong body
cords for foil and saber are one and the same. Thanks.