How "real" are the Lord of The Rings collectible swords?

Hi there!
I am not into fencing but all my life have liked swords and weapons of
any kind, so , just for curiosity, would like your opinion on the
collectible swords from the movies based on the Tolkien saga.

Would these swords be suitable for the savage battles depicted in the
pictures, or a mediaeval sword fight for that matter, or are they only
beautiful pieces of junk?

If not, would a real fight sword of this kind be much heavier or would
have better steel and weight about the same?

Thanks a lot in advance!

"That´s what I forgot to tell you, José, that Slowpoke Rodríguez
carries a handgun" -Looney Tunes

In rec.sport.fencing on 20 Oct 2003 00:50:35 -0700
Ricardo Rodr?guez <the_nailer@antisocial.com> wrote:
>
> Would these swords be suitable for the savage battles depicted in the
> pictures, or a mediaeval sword fight for that matter, or are they only
> beautiful pieces of junk?

Depends on what you mean by "suitable".

I dunno if any of the movie tie in weapons are made by companies that
make decent kit or not. I'd be surprised though! And even if it's
from a reputable company, it would be unlikely they'd make good weapons
for the wallhanger market. The people who buy wallhangers mostly want
shiny and heavy....

The ones I saw looked OK for fighting, being mostly your average single
or hand and a half. Didn't see any cringeworthy fantasy blades in the
short look I had.

>
> If not, would a real fight sword of this kind be much heavier or would
> have better steel and weight about the same?
>

It's a myth that "real swords" were crowbars. Your average single handed
broadsword weighed around 2-3lbs, a hand and a half a bit more, a two
hander around 5-7lbs but very seldom more. The huge heavy ones surviving
in some collections are ceremonial bearing swords, not fighting weapons.
Our ancestors weren't stupid, they wanted a sword they could use all
day if they needed to. Nor were they ignorant of metalwork, the vikings
were making patternwelded blades in the 400s, and a look at the armour
from the heyday of plate shows amazing smithwork as well as good metal.

(for some sample weapon weights, have a look at
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/cariadoc...n_weights.html)

Most wallhanger swords are too heavy, and have poor blades, often
stainless steel. They are usually poorly balanced too, with too much
weight forward, to give them that very tip-heavy "wow this is a heavy
chopping sword" feel. A sword is a sword, if it moves like an axe
there's a problem....

If you want a good hand and a half, consider the Paul Chen/Hanwei ones,
or if you have the money, something from Del Tin. YOu can see a variety
of stuff at places like http://therionarms.com or http://www.deltin.net/
for the Del Tins.

If you have lots of money and a real desire for high quality kit, then
Angus Trim or similar is worth a look, http://www.allsaintsblades.com/
or http://store.swordforum.com/angustrim/

Of course the reproduction weapons mentioned won't be as fancy looking
as the movie ones, fancy was for show, not for work...

Zebee

"Ricardo Rodr?guez" <the_nailer@antisocial.com> wrote in message
news:db6143b1.0310192350.129e5858@posting.google.c om...
> Hi there!
> I am not into fencing but all my life have liked swords and weapons of
> any kind, so , just for curiosity, would like your opinion on the
> collectible swords from the movies based on the Tolkien saga.
>
> Would these swords be suitable for the savage battles depicted in the
> pictures,

No.

or a mediaeval sword fight for that matter, or are they only
> beautiful pieces of junk?

No.
>
> If not, would a real fight sword of this kind be much heavier or would
> have better steel and weight about the same?

Yes.
>
> Thanks a lot in advance!
>
> "That´s what I forgot to tell you, José, that Slowpoke Rodríguez
> carries a handgun" -Looney Tunes

feeling monosyllabic today Fred?

On 20 Oct 2003 08:31:23 GMT, Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> wrote:

>In rec.sport.fencing on 20 Oct 2003 00:50:35 -0700
>Ricardo Rodr?guez <the_nailer@antisocial.com> wrote:
>>
>> Would these swords be suitable for the savage battles depicted in the
>> pictures, or a mediaeval sword fight for that matter, or are they only
>> beautiful pieces of junk?
>
>Depends on what you mean by "suitable".
>
>I dunno if any of the movie tie in weapons are made by companies that
>make decent kit or not. I'd be surprised though! And even if it's
>from a reputable company, it would be unlikely they'd make good weapons
>for the wallhanger market. The people who buy wallhangers mostly want
>shiny and heavy....

Read something on here a few years back....a well-respected smith
(forget which one) said he had made several period weapons, including
rapiers, over the years and considered them as authentic and
effective.....until he had a chance to handle a genuine rapier at a
museum. Decided he was doing it all wrong as the balance and handling
of the original were far superior to his.


<snip>


brianWE
God hasn't spoken to me in ages.
Do you think I should get off the medication?

I am given to understand that they boast the notorious rattail tangs,
ie short lengths of threaded rod welded to the stub of the shoulders
of the blade to which a screw-on pommel is affixed to hold the grip
and cross on. That feature alone would make them unsuitable for use,
however well-made the blades and furnitue might be.

Thanks a lot for your comments on the movie swords, I didn´t expect a
response so quickly! That was very useful information. I supposse they
are not the best option if some orks show in my house at midnight;
nice pieces tough.
By the way, they are made by United Cutlery.

I´m very grateful with you guys to take the time to answer this.
See you later!

Ricardo

"That´s what I forgot to tell you, José, that Slowpoke Rodríguez
carries a handgun" -Looney Tunes

On 20 Oct 2003 23:44:52 -0700, the_nailer@antisocial.com (Ricardo
Rodr?guez) wrote:

>Thanks a lot for your comments on the movie swords, I didn´t expect a
>response so quickly! That was very useful information. I supposse they
>are not the best option if some orks show in my house at midnight;
>nice pieces tough.
>By the way, they are made by United Cutlery.

Actually, I suspect United makes nothing.....they seem to contract
stuff out to Asian manufacturers. Pretty much like Cold Steel. No
direct knowledge, but I think CS is a bit more fussy about which Asian
contractors they use.....at least, about laid down specifications.
Asian factories seem to be able to produce what the contracting
company demands...at a price.



brianWE
God hasn't spoken to me in ages.
Do you think I should get off the medication?

In rec.sport.fencing on 20 Oct 2003 23:44:52 -0700
Ricardo Rodr?guez <the_nailer@antisocial.com> wrote:
> Thanks a lot for your comments on the movie swords, I didn´t expect a
> response so quickly! That was very useful information. I supposse they
> are not the best option if some orks show in my house at midnight;
> nice pieces tough.

The best option? A baseball bat or a lump of 2x4 that just happens to
be there cos you were going to use it to wedge a table or something.

If the ork is going to be scared off by an angry awake (you will be
awake won't you? Properly awake?) householder, he'll be scared off by a
big hunk of wood as much as by a sword.

If he's not going to be scared off, you don't want to be armed with
something you can't use in close quarters in the dark, so if you haven't
had good training with swords that size and weight and shape, use a
baseball bat.

Orks have seen plenty of wanna be heroes with swords, don't make it
harder on yourself. There are lots more orks where that one came from,
and the scriptwriter is not on your side!

Zebee

Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> nattered on
thusnews:slrnbp9tkt.3fo.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au :

> The best option? A baseball bat or a lump of 2x4 that just happens to
> be there cos you were going to use it to wedge a table or something.

I recommend an old tosser with a long beard on a brilliant white horse, it
helps if said old tosser also glows in the dark.