I'd like to ask WHY ;)

[Trim Plus Expert]

I am still a novice fencer and the same question always come back to me. Why
do everyone prefer orthopedic grips? Maybe some still prefer straith grip as
I. I think that straith grip give you a better balance effect a i don't know
exactly why but I trainned with both about the same time and I am performing
better with a straith grip. I have to say that i love the feel of an
orthopedic grip !

Please tell me

[Holly E. Ordway]

"Trim Plus Expert" <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote in
news:hfQZa.2000$l96.251436@news20.bellglobal.com:

> I am still a novice fencer and the same question always come back
> to me. Why do everyone prefer orthopedic grips? Maybe some still
> prefer straith grip as I. I think that straith grip give you a
> better balance effect a i don't know exactly why but I trainned
> with both about the same time and I am performing better with a
> straith grip. I have to say that i love the feel of an orthopedic

I *think* that the basic difference is that orthopedic grips
(conventionally known as pistol grips) give you more power, while
French (straight) grips give you more precise control. Each one
allows you to do different things and prevents you from doing others.
A French grip lets you move your hand into extreme positions (like
during infighting or some parries) that AFAIK can't be done with a
pistol grip. You can also "post" with a French grip, that is, hold it
toward the pommel end to extend your effective reach - you can't do
that with a pistol grip as your hand is fixed in place. Conversely,
the pistol grip is more useful for "power" moves, including the flick
- I don't think it's possible to flick with a French grip. (I don't
know how to flick in any case, so I could be wrong.)

What it boils down to is personal preference - what works for YOU.
Most high-level foil fencers seem to use pistol grips, but I've also
seen a substantial number who use French grips. My own personal
preference leads me to use a pistol grip when I fence foil, though if
I ever take up epee I just may try using a French grip for a change of
pace. Sabre, of course, has a straight grip no matter what.

Play around with different foils (I assume that's what you're
learning) and see which ones feel "right" and which ones don't. Keep
in mind that pistol grips come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. I use
a small Belgian - I love it, but it's the only pistol grip I've ever
tried that feels "right" - I'd use a French grip before I'd use a
Visconti grip, for instance.

--Holly

[Jonathan Jefferies]

For epee I find that the orthopedic/pistol grip is more sure in my hand, i.e.
wraps around. And as I'm bothered by stiffness in my hand this is a decided
advantage. Also the "flick" and quick picks are easier to execute.

Such is my experience.
J.

Trim Plus Expert wrote:
> I am still a novice fencer and the same question always come back to me. Why
> do everyone prefer orthopedic grips? Maybe some still prefer straith grip as
> I. I think that straith grip give you a better balance effect a i don't know
> exactly why but I trainned with both about the same time and I am performing
> better with a straith grip. I have to say that i love the feel of an
> orthopedic grip !
>
> Please tell me
>
>

[gary hayenga]

Orthopedic grips provide you with more leverage so you can move the
blade faster and make stronger blade actions. The key is of course that
you should *need* that extra leverage. Good distance and timing are far
more useful. With a french grip you *have* to be precise or it doesn't
work.

This is a good way to learn precision, but most competitive fencers like
having the extra leverage available in case of an emergency. And yes it
is possible to flick with a french grip.

What kind of grip you use is mostly a matter of what feels right to you.

gary hayenga


Holly E. Ordway wrote:
> "Trim Plus Expert" <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote in
> news:hfQZa.2000$l96.251436@news20.bellglobal.com:
>
>
>>I am still a novice fencer and the same question always come back
>>to me. Why do everyone prefer orthopedic grips? Maybe some still
>>prefer straith grip as I. I think that straith grip give you a
>>better balance effect a i don't know exactly why but I trainned
>>with both about the same time and I am performing better with a
>>straith grip. I have to say that i love the feel of an orthopedic
>
>
> I *think* that the basic difference is that orthopedic grips
> (conventionally known as pistol grips) give you more power, while
> French (straight) grips give you more precise control. Each one
> allows you to do different things and prevents you from doing others.
> A French grip lets you move your hand into extreme positions (like
> during infighting or some parries) that AFAIK can't be done with a
> pistol grip. You can also "post" with a French grip, that is, hold it
> toward the pommel end to extend your effective reach - you can't do
> that with a pistol grip as your hand is fixed in place. Conversely,
> the pistol grip is more useful for "power" moves, including the flick
> - I don't think it's possible to flick with a French grip. (I don't
> know how to flick in any case, so I could be wrong.)
>
> What it boils down to is personal preference - what works for YOU.
> Most high-level foil fencers seem to use pistol grips, but I've also
> seen a substantial number who use French grips. My own personal
> preference leads me to use a pistol grip when I fence foil, though if
> I ever take up epee I just may try using a French grip for a change of
> pace. Sabre, of course, has a straight grip no matter what.
>
> Play around with different foils (I assume that's what you're
> learning) and see which ones feel "right" and which ones don't. Keep
> in mind that pistol grips come in all sorts of shapes and sizes. I use
> a small Belgian - I love it, but it's the only pistol grip I've ever
> tried that feels "right" - I'd use a French grip before I'd use a
> Visconti grip, for instance.
>
> --Holly

[Trim Plus Expert]

Thank you all,
Do you have any picture of an italian grip. I began fencing about 8 month
ago and i feel a little fanatic about it. I like to try everything. I
practice about 16 to 20 hours a week (too much time lost because in quebec
there are no fencing school and thanx god i have a french teacher a damn
good one) I start to have the feeling of the blade, feels great!

Agleos Arkeneight

[pochas]

In article <kb5_a.113$0I.4759@news20.bellglobal.com>, "Trim Plus Expert"
<trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote:

> Thank you all,
> Do you have any picture of an italian grip. I began fencing about 8 month
> ago and i feel a little fanatic about it. I like to try everything. I
> practice about 16 to 20 hours a week (too much time lost because in quebec
> there are no fencing school and thanx god i have a french teacher a damn
> good one) I start to have the feeling of the blade, feels great!
>
> Agleos Arkeneight

Here ya go...

http://santelli.com/images/foil4.gif

[Darius]

Zebee Johnstone <zebee@zip.com.au> wrote in message news:<slrnbjgl56.4a4.zebee@zeus.zipworld.com.au>.. .
> In rec.sport.fencing on Mon, 11 Aug 2003 22:11:24 -0400
> gary hayenga <vandg@speakeasy.org> wrote:
> > Orthopedic grips provide you with more leverage so you can move the
> > blade faster and make stronger blade actions. The key is of course that
> > you should *need* that extra leverage. Good distance and timing are far
> > more useful. With a french grip you *have* to be precise or it doesn't
> > work.
> >
>
> I wish more people on this newsgroup used Italian grips, I'd love to
> know how they feel to a competitive sport fencer compared to ortho and
> French.
>
> Zebee

I was shown how to hold one by a classical fencer friend, and the
University club I teach at has an electric Italian foil, so I spent a
few practices fencing with it, just for fun.

My reaction is that the grip combines the disadvantages of both the
french and ortho grips. It's not as comfortable or powerful as a
visconti, but doesn't afford the reach advantage or the detachability
of the french.

darius

[Zebee Johnstone]

In rec.sport.fencing on 12 Aug 2003 09:45:05 -0700
Darius <dariuswei@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> My reaction is that the grip combines the disadvantages of both the
> french and ortho grips. It's not as comfortable or powerful as a
> visconti, but doesn't afford the reach advantage or the detachability
> of the french.

So it is halfway between. MOre powerful than the french, not has
powerful as an ortho.

Zebee

[Derle]

One of my instructors uses an Italian grip. She will use an ortho when
forced but says the French grip feels like a "dead stick" in here hand.

Earl

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 02:45:21 +0000, Zebee Johnstone wrote:


>
> I wish more people on this newsgroup used Italian grips, I'd love to
> know how they feel to a competitive sport fencer compared to ortho and
> French.
>
> Zebee

[Thom Cate]

"Trim Plus Expert" <trimplus@bellnet.ca> wrote in message news:<kb5_a.113$0I.4759@news20.bellglobal.com>...

> ...I like to try everything. I
> practice about 16 to 20 hours a week (too much time lost because in quebec
> there are no fencing school and thanx god i have a french teacher a damn
> good one) I start to have the feeling of the blade, feels great!

Au contraire, mon ami!

Quebéc the province is LOADED with fencing, starting most notably with
the fine fencers at Escrime Mont-Royal, in Notre-Dame-de-Grace,
Montréal. They're an excellent Anglo/Franophone club, led by the
legendary John Harvie.

Across the Ile is Sigienurs des Rive Nord, pretty much Francophone,
and an excellent club.

As for fencing in Ville du Quebéc, get more information here:

http://www.fencing.ca/index.html

Cheers,

TC

--