For the epeeists: how often do you hop?

[One and Only...]

How often do you guys bounce/hop? I rarely stop hopping during a match, typically choosing short, fast, to-and-fro hops while slowly changing the distance to my advantage. Of course, I play on my toes - my heel doesn't hit the floor while hopping. I feel there are obvious advantages to this style: disguising your actions and movement, forcing your opponent to constantly reanalyze distance, making it more difficult for his/her point to stick, and maintaining momentum which can increase the speed of your attacks. Despite this, I rarely see anyone hop as consistantly as I do. Sure, occasionally they will, and maybe they'll throw in a fleche here or there, but most of the time they will use standard advance/retreats. So, I'm wondering about you guys. How often do you hop?

[Alain]

Keeping good distance is essential, especially at higher levels where a person who doesn't move will simply get taken apart. It's important to keep an equal wighting on both feet, and keeping on your toes rather than with your feet flat on the floor will make it easier to change direction.

Distance, as well as changing direction and pace, go hand in hand with good timing, and timing is one of the keys to making a good hit

[Mr Epee]

Hopping is a poor man's footwork.

[Mihail]

No way. I know some rich people with bad footwork.

[mrbiggs]

I hop in serious bouts, when I know my opponent will take advantage of any knowledge he has of my distance. In eaiser bouts, I don't really bother.

Also, I hop when I fleche, because I can't quite manage a quality fleche out of an en guarde, but I can out of a hop. I don't know why yet.

[Derstern]

I can't hop. Really. The only time I do is if I am really nervous, which is means I am going to fence really badly. Too agressive -> pressing -> bad timing.

In other words, I'm toast.

[Achilles]

I hop all of the time. I find that it helps to keep my opponents off balance.

[Cavatione]

Hopping is a poor man's footwork.

I quote this one.

[VERITAS]

Hopping seems pointless to me--a mask for slopping footwork/distance.
A ballestra might be useful occasionally. But there is no replacement for advance, retreat, and lunge for footwork.

charley

[telkanuru]

I would then ask you to observe high-level epee. Bouncing allows for very, very fine distance control while breaking up tempo and timing into inscrutable fractions. I've already been taught to find the timing gap in my opponent's normal foot work and do a lazy man's advance-lunge (you advance, I lunge). This is next to impossible to do against a bouncing opponent. There are very distinct reasons for bouncing.

[Alain]

I would then ask you to observe high-level epee. Bouncing allows for very, very fine distance control while breaking up tempo and timing into inscrutable fractions. I've already been taught to find the timing gap in my opponent's normal foot work and do a lazy man's advance-lunge (you advance, I lunge). This is next to impossible to do against a bouncing opponent. There are very distinct reasons for bouncing.

Well said! Anyone who's been to an international competition - knows.

[Victor]

Short bounces ARE footwork. Anyone who believes there's only one way to fence is being small-minded and stubborn.

[acaba]

Hopping seems pointless to me--a mask for slopping footwork/distance.

Lets clarify a point here. I think most of the fencers who say they 'hop' actually bounce forward and backward, NOT up and down. Up and down is wasted movement, and a good way to get hit.

When hopping, I can control distance to < 1" (2.54 cm). And I can make asjustments on that order very quickly. Restricting myself to only advance and retreat causes two problems: 1) the advance is usually too big for what I want, 2) the adv/ret is much much slower than just slightly unweighting my feet and sliding them forward or back that short distance.

I still practice regular old footwork for 2-3 hours a week. I make advances, retreats, jumps, lunges, etc. I also practice some of the hopping footwork at full speed too. Each has its place in a bout. For hitting an opponent, nothing can replace a smooth, fast advance-lunge. But for getting into the right distance, I will both hop and use footword as appropriate.

[Inquartata]

Bouncing: reason #1 why epeeists are just plain odd...

[glowstix]

I would then ask you to observe high-level epee. Bouncing allows for very, very fine distance control while breaking up tempo and timing into inscrutable fractions. I've already been taught to find the timing gap in my opponent's normal foot work and do a lazy man's advance-lunge (you advance, I lunge). This is next to impossible to do against a bouncing opponent. There are very distinct reasons for bouncing.

thats a good point, i agree but at the same time, what if you're fencing someone who can't or hasn't been taught "to find the timing gap in my opponent's normal foot work"? shouldn't that pretty much nullify the bounce when fencing a lesser experienced opponent?

[ZenEpeeist]

I've often wondered why you see bouncing at higher level tournaments. Just figured that it keeps you moving so that you don't plant your feet, grow roots and get hit. Any other thoughts?

What would be the difference between sautay and bounce?

[keith]

I would then ask you to observe high-level epee. Bouncing allows for very, very fine distance control while breaking up tempo and timing into inscrutable fractions. I've already been taught to find the timing gap in my opponent's normal foot work and do a lazy man's advance-lunge (you advance, I lunge). This is next to impossible to do against a bouncing opponent. There are very distinct reasons for bouncing.

agreed - however I think the initial observation was not concerning the average A grade epeeist.

.... not that we want to get into any finger pointing over who the comment may apply to.

[jspierre]

The focus on hopping is misplaced; the real concern here should be tempo changes.

What really distinguishes high quality intl epee from the ranks of the national amatures is the abililty to shift tempo.

A syncopated tempo is what gives real life to preparations in epee since fundamentally the game is one of temporal not conventional priority. That's not to say tempo changes aren't important in saber/foil, but that they're used for different reasons, mainly to establish an attack.

The hopping question in epee is really a non-issue. Good footwork and hopping are mutually exclusive. You hop when you hop, and you use proper, subtle, and well coordianted advances and retreats when they are needed. Two different things.

For epee guys that rely on fleching a lot, you see a wider stance, and a sprinter's style footwork on the back foot. This style seems to involve as much bounce as hop, as some clearly feel that fleching off the toes is more powerful than doing it relatively flat-footed. In reality, the flech is a technique that relys on surprise in change in tempo more than if you launch one way or another. So tempo, again, is the real concern.

If a guy is always in the sprint position to fleche (we all can probably think of some epee opponets like this...Tiller in the US?), what they are really saying is that (rightly or wrongly) I'm faster than you and will hit you with a fleche. It's a kind of one dimensional game but against ill-prepared fencers or those intimidated by the implicit challenge, it can be successful.

I think the comment that you need to be balanced on both feet has it correct. Doesn't mean you can hop or bounce, but the foundation, IMO, is sly, low-slung, strip hugging footwork that allows for the kind of quick change in tempo, and power you need for attacks of all kinds.

[telkanuru]

thats a good point, i agree but at the same time, what if you're fencing someone who can't or hasn't been taught "to find the timing gap in my opponent's normal foot work"? shouldn't that pretty much nullify the bounce when fencing a lesser experienced opponent?

Then it just confuses the heck out of them

Actually, my preferred epee footwork is a deep en-guard with the sort of stuttering footwork (ie. Vezzali), as well as 2-step advances and retreats. Sort of the same thing, but a bit different.

[achilleus]

Hopping is a poor man's footwork.

I couldn't agree more. The Kolobkov guy from Russia is totally using poor man's footwork. I bet you he doesn't even know how to advance. I mean he never stops hopping. Ever.

Tsk. He should learn some technique.